Css Spacing Issue

**webgyrl** · June 29, 2004

Hey gang... trying to launch the re-design of the IMA site this early AM and I am testing the pages... I am running into some strange CSS spacing thing. I have made a CSS file for the text. The HEADER for each page is not CSS scripted, but set at HEADING 2 and Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif.

For some reason, the text that has CSS applied to it is generating large line spaces in some spots and I had set the line spacing to normal.

You can view what I am talking about here:

http://www.indiemanagers.com/membership_benefits.htm

Any ideas why this might be happening? I am mainly viewing in IE6 with a 1024X768 browser window.

Thanks,

Nat

**webgyrl** · June 29, 2004

Do you think these spaces have to do with unclosed TD tags at all?

Could that be it? I am going blind from looking at code all night/morning... can someone check this page to see if the not closed TD is the culprit?

http://www.indiemanagers.com

Oh lord... my eyes are crossing.... LOL

I have to get some sleep. I'll be back later on.... heee heee not much rest for the CSS challenged.

**kaseytraeger** · June 29, 2004

Nat,

I'm not seeing a problem with line spacing. Did you already solve your problem? I'll attach screenshots so you can see how I'm seeing your webpage in IE6 and Firefox 0.8.

The only real difference, if you want to call it that, is the little bit of extra spacing between lines in IE. I wouldn't say it's much more than 3-4 pixels spacing between lines. Have a look-see and tell me what you think.

First, the screenshot in Firefox 0.8.

**kaseytraeger** · June 29, 2004

And now the screenshot from IE6.

**natimage** · June 29, 2004

It looks fine from here too. Just a note, though...I have seen spacing issues with </td> tags that were not on the same line as the last line of text. So...if you have unclosed </td> tags, I would guess that it could potentially give a spacing issue as well.

**TCH-JimE** · July 5, 2004

Always always close tags, leaving them open is like dropping litter! (and when your doing coding, closing tags means its one less headache to have when it all goes wrong!)

Jimuni

**webgyrl** · July 5, 2004

Always always close tags, leaving them open is like dropping litter! (and when your doing coding, closing tags means its one less headache to have when it all goes wrong!)

Jimuni

I have been going thru this code and I can't see where I haven't closed a tag... it is a lot to examine tho... so maybe I am missing something...

The following is one of the pages that has the line spacing issues. Now, what is interesting is that these line spacing issues are only showing up when I view the page with IE 6.

As you can see, the line spacing issue starts after the bit of code that displays the inline frame ticker. <ilayer id="tickernsmain" width=&{tickerwidth}; bgcolor=&{tickerbgcolor}; visibility=hide>

<layer id="tickernssub" width=&{tickerwidth}; left=0 top=0></layer>

</ilayer>

Here is a link to the index page

http://www.indiemanagers.com

This is the INDEX page code:

<html>

<head>

<title>IMA | Indie Managers Association | HOME</title>

<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">

<link rel="stylesheet" href="styles/ima.css" type="text/css">

<style>



</style>

<script language="JavaScript">



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<meta name="metastatement" content="The Indie Managers Association (IMA) provides a unique opportunity for independent music managers to exchange ideas, suggestions and opinions amongst themselves and others on issues surrounding their independent community.">

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</head>

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<h2>Home

<script language=JavaScript>



</script>

</h2>

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<td width="84%" height="0" valign="top" align="center"><a href="seminar/about.htm" target="_top"><img src="images/home/filmtvseminar.gif" width="405" height="81" alt="Click Here To Register For the IMA Film/TV Licensing Seminar" border="0"></a></td>

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<div align="left">

 





<div align="center" class="ima">Subscribe To The IMA Mailing

List </div>

<form action="http://www.indiemanagers.com/cgi-bin/dada/mail.cgi" method=POST>

<div align="center" class="ima">



<input type="hidden" name="flavor" value="subscribe">

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<input type="submit" value="Subscribe" name="submit">



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The Indie Managers Association

(IMA) is organized and dedicated to serving the independent

music management community by adopting a code of ethics; providing

educational manuals; offering discounts on products and services;

supplying promotional resources; drafting quarterly newsletters

and creating opportunities to cultivate professional relationships

through the annual IMA convention. 

The greatest risk to today's

independent music community is the fact that many managers

are not well educated about the music business and how it

applies to and affects their clients. We feel that a well-educated

manager operating with a solid knowledge base and sound business

practices will run a better company and yield better results

for themselves and their clients.

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<hr>



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var tickercontents=new Array()

tickercontents[0]='SEE WHAT MUSIC INDUSTRY PROFESSIONALS ARE SAYING ABOUT MANAGERS AND MANAGEMENT:'

tickercontents[1]='QUOTES FROM MUSIC INDUSTRY PROFESSIONALS ABOUT MANAGERS'

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Q: Considering record labels are less

and less concerned with developing new artists and instead want

a ready-to-go package, who do you think will be primarily responsible

for developing new artists in the future? 

A: It's what

we are doing as managers. We have very close and intimate relationships

with our artists and our job is to sit and listen to their vision

for the band and to help them find opportunities to fulfill that

vision. Managers are in the best position to help develop artists,

but that's not to say that we don't need help from the label, because

we do.

Quote by Tim Cook, who manages rock bands

P.O.D. (US multi-platinum) and Stockholm Sweden's, Blindside (US

Top 40). 

Interviewed by Jean-François Méan - May 3, 2004 -

<a href="http://www.hitquarters.com"'>http://www.hitquarters.com"'>http://www.hitquarters.com"'>http://www.hitquarters.com"'>http://www.hitquarters.com"'>http://www.hitquarters.com"'>http://www.hitquarters.com"'>http://www.hitquarters.com"'>http://www.hitquarters.com" target="_blank">HitQuarters.com</a>

 

<hr>

Q: How did you get started in the music business

and how did you become an A&R? 

A: I started in artist management working

for Dick Scott, who managed New Kids on the Block, Teddy Riley and

Marky Mark. At the time, I also had a production deal with Epic

Records. Essentially, I have always been an A&R because, whether

as a manager or running a production company, I have always been

involved with the creative side. Most of the skills I have acquired

that help me as an A&R come from my experiences in management.

As a manager, you learn every aspect of the music business: retail,

marketing, radio, A&R, and promotion.

Quote by Bryan Leach, who is head of urban

A&R at TVT Records in New York. The artists he represents include

Lil Jon & The East Side Boyz (US Top 3) and the Ying Yang Twins

(US Top 10). 

Interviewed by Jean-François Méan - April 5, 2004

<a href="http://www.hitquarters.com" target="_blank">HitQuarters.com</a>

 

<hr>

Q: What experiences have helped develop

your skills as an A&R? 

A: My background in management is incredibly

valuable. Four years of day-to-day management, of dealing with all

the departments at major record labels teaches you how to plan the

development of an artist and his or her record. When I became an

A&R rep myself, I knew exactly what needed to be done, what

format to go to radio with, how to roll out sales programs, and

so on. My background had given me an understanding of the process

that needs to take place at a major label to support an act's success.I

would say that fifty percent of the things that are worth signing

come from a manager, agent or lawyer you might know. The fact that

artists have representatives shows that they are professional and

are at a certain level.

Quote by Jaime Feldman, who is a rock A&R

representative at EMI/Capitol in Los Angeles and the A&R for

Bonnie Raitt (US multi-platinum). 

Interviewed by Jean-François Méan - March, 15 2004

<a href="http://www.hitquarters.com" target="_blank">HitQuarters.com</a>

 

<hr>

Q: Considering record labels are less and less

concerned with developing new artists and instead want a ready-to-go

package, including well-produced songs, do you think it will be managers

who are primarily responsible for the development of new artists in

the future? 

A: Good managers

will be. If you have an artist, and I don't care how talented he

or she is, who can't do an interview, then they're not useful to

you. If they can't sit down and have an intelligent conversation,

they're not useful to you, and if they're walking around getting

high or drunk, then they're not useful to you either. Artists have

to take it seriously; you wouldn't go to work high or drunk, and

if you're inarticulate, it's just going to make you look bad in

the long run. Artists have to take it upon themselves to watch real

interviews, to learn. I even watch interviews on CNN to see how

they do it, to learn what and what not to say, how to say it and

how to hold the mic. Artists must learn everything that being a

performer involves, including how to perform in videos, and good

managers will help them to do that. Labels, on the other hand, won't

be of any help in this respect-I can't remember the last time I

met somebody at a label who did artist development.

Quote by Scott Johnson, who manages the rap

artist and producer David Banner (US Top 10), signed to SRC/Universal. 

Interviewed by Kimbel Bouwman - March, 10 2004 <a href="http://www.hitquarters.com" target="_blank">HitQuarters.com</a>

 

<hr>

Q: What experiences have helped develop

your skills as a manager? 

A: There's no school for managers, you

have to learn it in the field as you go. Personal contacts are what

it takes. For example, I know every head of every local record company

around the world. You may have an artist who sold well in Benelux,

but can't sell in the UK, and you have to understand why. You have

to understand what the formats are and how you break artists in

new markets. The only way to know that is by dealing directly as

a manager with the heads of record companies, with marketing people,

and with all sorts of companies around the world. I've developed

that over the years and it's very important for a manager. It's

a tough business though, particularly for managers, who get none

of the credit but all of the blame.

Q: Do you think managers will be primarily

responsible for the development of new artists in the future? 



A: Without a doubt, because I think that

the record business is going through a major upheaval right now

and they're going to have to cut costs. Managers and producers are

going to become very important in the development of artists, especially

when the record company listens to you and you can create an intelligent

marketing plan, as a manager in my position can. When a record company

sees that you know what you're doing, then they will really work

with you and that's very important for management. You just can't

say let's spend this and let's spend that; you have to have a plan

that works and I've been lucky enough in my career to have come

up with them.

Quote by Brian Avnet, who currently manages

Josh Groban (US multi-platinum) and Toni Braxton (US multi-platinum). 

Interviewed by Jean-François Méan - February, 16 2004

<a href="http://www.hitquarters.com" target="_blank">HitQuarters.com</a>

 

<hr>

Q: Aside from Sean Paul's connection with the

US hip-hop market, were other factors important? 

A: The most

important thing, something that I had never seen in my twenty-five

years of working with Jamaican reggae artists, was a team around

Sean Paul with experience and an international vision. Especially

his manager, Jeremy Harding, who had also produced a fair amount

of tracks for Sean Paul. I really had the best in Jamaica all working

on Sean and that team, which also included Steve Wilson and Jerome

Hamilton, gave me confidence right away and made me believe that

it was going to work in America.

Quote by Murray Elias, who is Senior Director

of A&R for Sean Paul (US platinum), Tanto Metro & Devonte,

and Sasha, at VP Records. 

Interviewed by Jean-François Méan - November, 14 2003

<a href="http://www.hitquarters.com" target="_blank">HitQuarters.com</a>

 

<hr>

Q: How important is the team around the

artist?

 A: Very important. A manager is a very important

person because they serve as the liaison between the artist and

the recording company and help to negotiate all aspects of the artist's

deal. Once the band is on a label, then it becomes very important

to have a great team in all departments.

Quote by Chris Morris, who is an A&R coordinator

for urban and rock music at Atlantic Records. The artists he works

with include T.I. and Nappy Roots (US platinum). 

Interviewed by Kimbel Bouwman - October, 13 2003 <a href="http://www.hitquarters.com" target="_blank">HitQuarters.com</a>

 

<hr>

Q: What experiences have helped you to develop

your skills as a manager? 

A: Lots of

patience, reading and hands-on learning. You have to read about

the business as well as work within it. I learned the ropes by working

with Columbia and seeing how major labels are run. At the same time,

it's the ups and downs, the good and the bad, the disagreements...I

never stress out because knowledge is always a credit to you as

a manager and as a person. Throughout the disagreements that you

might have, you have to have done your research and make sure that

you know what you're talking about.

Quote by Musa Moore, who is the president

of Moore Flavor Entertainment and Mo' Flav Records. He has managed

Profyle, Mobb Deep (US gold), Big L (US gold) and others. 

Interviewed by Jean-François Méan - September, 30

2003 - <a href="http://www.hitquarters.com" target="_blank">HitQuarters.com</a>

 

<hr>

Q: At what stage does a songwriter start to

need a manager? 

A: In today's

climate, many songwriters need management from the start. If they

try to submit songs themselves and they don't have a publishing

deal, a lawyer, or management, it's generally not going to get heard.

And that's how it works with artists as well. At the same time,

the writer really has to have something going creatively for a manager

to take him or her on, whereas artists often just need someone to

set schedules and provide guidance.

Quote by Michael Mavrolas, who heads Genuine

Representation, a management company for songwriters and producers.

His clients have written and produced songs for 2 Pac, Christina

Aguilera, Brandy, Monica, Justin Timberlake, NAS, Anastacia and

Destiny's Child, among others. 

Interviewed by Jean-François Méan - July, 15 2003

<a href="http://www.hitquarters.com" target="_blank">HitQuarters.com</a>

<a href="http://www.dcpages.com"> 

<img src="images/links/dcpages.gif" width="88" height="31" border="0" alt="DC Pages" hspace="5"></a><a href="http://www.dcmusicnews.com" target="_blank">DC

Music News</a>

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**dsdemmin** · July 6, 2004

Nat:

I do not see the problem (after your inline frame) :unsure: [with IE 6.0 view] ???

Sometimes in Dreamweaver (which I think my poor memory tells me you use), you will see funny spacing if you have a blank space before a </td> tag (or after a <td> tag for that matter).

Sorry of little help.

Good luck.

**webgyrl** · July 14, 2004

This is very strange. Both my roomate and I see the line spacing problems in IE6 no matter how I try to tweak that code. I am running Windows 98SE and my roomate is running Windows XP. My screen resolution is 1024 by 768 32 Bit Tru Color setting and my roomate's system is 1024 by 768 32 Bit Highest Color setting.

We are running cable connected via ethernet.

Strange. Very strange.

**Deverill** · July 23, 2004

Nat, I'm not seeing it here with IE 6.0 either. Can you give us a screenshot so we can see what you are seeing? Maybe you are calling it funny spacing and we just don't know any better than to think you did it on purpose. :blink:

Also, if you use some of the validators such as validator.w3.org you can let it find unclosed tags and such for you. Any time I have something totally goofy I go there and let it find the things it can and it often gets the culprit. Just ignore the "Required attribute ALT not specified." and such unless you just want to be in compliance. On your page at www.indiemanagers.com/ it has the following abbreviated problems:

Line 337, column 106: end tag for element "DIV" which is not open

Line 340, column 44: an attribute value must be a literal unless it contains only name characters

... <ilayer id="tickernsmain" width=&{tickerwidth}; bgcolor=&{tickerbgcolor}

^ the & sign is what's causing the error.

I would guess that both of these could cause problems with spacing. There's also a CSS validator that can help with any problems in your stylesheets at jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/

I don't know why you see it and we don't though. Keep plugging at it and you'll find it!

**webgyrl** · July 24, 2004

Hi Jim,

I've attached a screenshot showing what I am seeing here on both IE6 Browsers in this household.

I am going to check the codes again and use that very useful and helpful info you gave. Hopefully I can correct the issue. It's happening on most pages on this particular site.

Thanks,

Nat

**GroovyFish** · July 24, 2004

I think I see what the difference is:

On the paragraphs that have the correct line spacing you have the class of "ima" assigned to the paragraph (ie: )

On the paragrahps that are incorrect spacing you have "ima" assigned to span (ie: )

Not sure why that causes the problem, (I am still learning css) but if you change all of your paragraphs to you should be good to go.

**OldTimer** · July 24, 2004

Hi Nat,

Kinda new at this css stuff myself.

But give this a try. In your css for .ima you have LINE-HEIGHT: normal;

Try something like LINE-HEIGHT: 14px;

Play around with the px size.

Hope that helps.

Greg

**Deverill** · July 24, 2004

AHA!

One mystery solved. I still saw everything ok on your site in IE6 but then I went to the View -> Text Size and set it to medium, larger and largest and the problem became progressively worse. I have mine set to smaller by default so it didn't appear to be a problem.

Look at what GroovyFish said. I have seen that with Dreamweaver the thing does that very operation differently depending on some random number based on the phase of the moon, ambient room temperature and day of the week... sometimes it does <span class. I'm not sure exactly why but have had to make hand-changes before for that very reason.

If that doesn't pan out come back and we'll try something else.

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