Frustrated With Frontpage

[ejh]

I know I'm not the first, I"M FRUSTRATED WITH FRONTPAGE... In the future, I think I definately would like to get a new web design software. What do you think is the best WYSIWYG (What-You-See-Is-What-You-Get) Editor currently available (or available in the near future). If you think that program is FrontPage, please mention that too. Thanks so much!!

[LisaJill]

I don't use wysiwyg anymore; but Dreamweaver was always very friendly and easy to use; and it's quite powerful. You may want to look into that.

[DarqFlare]

I use the following graphical editor:

 

NULL

 

I do all my coding by hand.

[Deverill]

I do all my coding by hand.

Gee, that's nice Robert, but it doesn't help Eric much now does it?

(to all visitors, this is know as intra-family ribbing and it's done in jest.)

 

Eric, I have used FP2002 and earlier, Netscape communicator, some off the wall ones you can download and Dreamweaver. If you are looking to do more than a simple 2-page hobby site (not that there is anything wrong with them!) and can dig up the cash, my money's on Macromedia's MX 2004 (or whatever's out after that when you buy). It's integrated with a lot of different tools including flash, a graphics program, dreamweaver which is really nice. The MX2004 has really handy CSS tools too which appeal to me.

 

I've not used other products like GoLive so I can't compare them, but for me it my pick.

[scotttyz]

I use NULL myself (acually 1ST Page 200) but I have friends that use, Dreamweaver and GoLive, htey are happy with them. I think most of the larger non-micro$oft editors are pretty good

[bellringr]

I love Dreamweaver - I used Netscape Composer when I first started out, tried Frontpage and hated it with a passion, then got Dreamweaver and will never go back.

[TCH-Bruce]

Well, I started coding by hand with "vi" the *nix editor and then moved to FrontPage. While I liked FP it added so much bloat to the html I just went back to using "vi". I've since switch to using HTML-kit which I consider to be very good but it's not WYSIWYG.

 

If you have to have a WYSIWYG editor I would say Dreamweaver or Macromedia MX.

[DarqFlare]

FP is bad. I've worked with DW barely at all, but from what I see, it's good.

[ejh]

Gee, that's nice Robert, but it doesn't help Eric much now does it? 

(to all visitors, this is know as intra-family ribbing and it's done in jest.)

Oh... I didn't know that. JK...

 

Thanks for all the help guys!!

[ejh]

Oops... Did some lookin and "Dreamweaver" isn't compatible with Windows ME. Is there any way to get around this? Where's the best place to buy software? Thanks.

[Deverill]

Upgrade to XP?

 

Seriously, when I had ME there were tons of problems and they are only going to get worse for you.

 

I don't know any workaround for it thought. Edit: Duh, "though" it should have said!

Edited April 30, 2004 by TCH-Jim

[bellringr]

Seriously. ME is nasty. I paid for the darn thing and kept it for less than 2 months because it did nothing but mess things up. Better to work on 98 than ME.

[stevevan]

If you want to fork over some money, you could try Homesite. It allows both WYSIWYG and hard coding (which is quite nice if you really want to learn HTML). I don't know how much it costs now as I bought mine a few years ago.

[Deverill]

Homesite is at macromedia.com/software/homesite/ and costs $99. They also have a demo version so it's free to see if you like it or not.

[ejh]

It looks like that "HomeSite" isn't WYSIWYG... which is what I'm wanting. Thanks though Jim. Are there any more WYSIWYG software (maybe a little cheaper ) that's compatible with Windows ME?

[ejh]

Did some more searching and found "NetObjects Fusion." Anyone know anything about it? Thanks guys!

[RJSkon]

Eric

 

If you're looking for a WYSIWYG Editor, you may want to try the 30 day free demo that CuteSITE Builder offers at, http://www.globalscape.com/cutesitebuilder/

Don't let the name CuteSite be miss leading, it should have been named "EasySite Builder", this software is created by the same folks that have Cute HTML and Cute FTP, plus many other software programs.

 

TCH also has a Help Forum for CuteSite Builder users, from what I see many folks that visit this Forum are users of CuteSite Builder, about a year ago TCH was promoting CuteSite Builder and was to sell the software at a discounted price, I don't know what happened.

 

I Have used Trellix Web in the past which is now renamed CuteSITE Builder.

Here is a sample of what it can do, http://meowwebdesigns.com/graphics.

I figured I might as well jump on the bandwagon and toss my hat in the ring and sell something like everyone else that uses a HTML Editor. BTW, CuteSITE builder has a FormMail wizard which uses GlobalScape's Cgi-Bin and the form is very easy to set up.

 

Richard

 

PS, if you are looking to save money, you can use Microsoft Publisher, that usually comes packaged with MS office, or you could use MS Word to publish a site, I have used both in the past.

[ejh]

wow, all that was built with CuteSite builder? I see you do a web design business. Is CuteSite builder the only software you use? Thanks Richard!!

[RJSkon]

Eric

 

I also use a program called ViaPage it's a WYSIWUG html Editor, to create forms and do some HTML that I use in CuteSITE Builder, you can enter html code in CuteSITE builder either through the page or in a "Insert HTML" container.

For the Flash menus and Flash animations I use Swish2.

For the css stylesheets , I use TopStyle

 

The Help Page at TCH, http://www.totalchoicehosting.com/help/, was created using CuteSITE Builder, by one of the gurus here TCH KW

 

KW, also has a CuteSITE Help site that he has created using CuteSite Builder, it's at, http://csbsupport.com, there are all sorts of tidbits there.

There is also another CUteSITE Builder Help site at, http://samisite.com, with more goodies.

 

And if you should need additional Design Templates, I have some Freebies at, http://rjskon.com/templates.

 

Richard

[ejh]

Thanks for the info... The other software I'm considering is NetObjects Fusion... Does anyone know anything about it? They don't have a trial which kind of worries me. So if anyone has used it, pleasep post your experience(s)

[Deverill]

I don't know about NetObjects Fusion - sorry. I posted the Homesite link because it was mentioned that it was out there "somewhere". It is definitely not wysiwyg

 

The problem with MS Publisher or MS Word is that they flood you with tons of garbage! It even seems CuteSiteBuilder does too. Just go to the meowweb site and view the source code. It, like FP2000 (the latest I used) by default puts Font and other tags on every line of your site... even if the font doesn't change from line to line. Look also at the TCH help site - as much love and care as KW puts into it there is still a lot of wasted effort placed there by CSB. Just look at how many times it sets (FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#FFFFFF" FACE="Verdana") on the same page. The low-end WYSIWYGs are well known for that kind of redundancy.

 

The Publisher and Word sites are even worse because they try to put in things that only those programs use to get back to the original version so it is way more than needed.

 

There are no totally clean WYSIWYG and you should be prepared to do some work on them to make them the most efficient, but some are way better than others.

 

For an example, go to www.grandslamkw.com for an example of Dreamweaver MX2004. I have not stripped the "extra" stuff DW's WYSIWYG puts in and it is using 3-column CSS and even a flash movie at the bottom. It's not as clean as you can make by hand but it is pretty doggone clean.

 

My bottom line is to use whatever tool works for you, but if you want clean code and a better shot at high rankings on the search engines you should choose carefully (or hand code if it is ultimately important to you.)

 

Realize that I believe all of these products are good for certain people in certain situations and I'm not saying they are worthless.

Edited May 1, 2004 by TCH-Jim

[ejh]

Thanks Jim... I know only a little bit about HTML so I think I really need a WYSIGUG... but I really REALLY appreciate your help. Thanks so much.

[TCH-Bruce]

Eric,

 

I did a search on google and came up with three that might be worth looking into.

 

http://www.easywebeditor.com

http://www.webstudio.com

http://xstandard.com

[RJSkon]

Jim

 

The best part about using an WYSIWYG Editor is that there isn't much time wasted writing code and you can get a web page up and published in just a few minutes, instead of spending a lot of time writing code. My sites do extremely well with the Google, it takes about two weeks for them to get listed in Google.

 

 

 

Eric

 

You may want to check into the academic version of Dreamweaver, if you qualify, you may be eligible to purchase it, it would probably be cheaper than Net fusion and you will have something decent.

 

Richard

[ejh]

RJSkon, you are exactly right on everything you said!! But... I have Windows ME

[jslagle]

Eric, my wife's an educator and her copy of Dreamweaver was around $100 or so from academicsuperstoredotcom.

 

They handle all the Microsoft products in the academic versions and I'm sure they would have an educational version of XP for a decent price if your computer could handle it.

 

I use both Dreamweaver and Cute Site Builder. CSB is very easy to use and you can get a web site up and operating in just a few minutes. I usually use CSB for clients wanting a simple web site and who want to maintain it themselves. I build the site, have them purchase a copy of CSB and then turn it over to them.

 

Jim

[RJSkon]

Eric

 

It looks as if there is a patch to correct the problem of Dreamweaver 4 not running with Windows ME it's at, http://www.macromedia.com/support/dreamwea...preview_me.htm., from what I see the problem was related to hang-ups when Previewing.

 

 

When you said that ME and Dreamweaver were not compatable, I was supprised, because I was thinking of downloading a trail version of Dreamweaver myself to see what it's all about, I run Windows ME also.

 

Richard

[ejh]

Hmm... Check this out... http://www.macromedia.com/software/dreamwe...nfo/systemreqs/ I wasn't able to get your patch to show up either

[RJSkon]

Eric

 

Yes, I saw that page when I went to their site.

 

I registered to download a copy of dreamwaver and to be placed on their mailing list, that's when I saw system requirementsand that page URL I placed in an earlier post.

While I was sending you that previous post I tried that URL and it sent me to their 404 page, the browser window was still open that contained that page, so I took a snap shot of it and published it, it's here, http://rjskon.com/Dreamer/, the bottom of th page is cut off a little.

 

Richard

[ejh]

UPDATE: Found the patch and installed Dreamweaver... But there's a catch! In order to install the patch you have to have Dreamweaver installed and in order to install Dreamweaver you need to "be running a comatible operating system." Looks like there's no winning this one lol Thanks so much Richard!! :hug:

[RJSkon]

Eric

 

Wasn't the problem just with version 3 and version 4 and isn't there now a version 5.

 

Richard

[ejh]

Man oh man... I dunno... The one they'll let you trial is Macromedia Dreamweaver MX 2004. I ran that and all and this nice little box popped up saying, that it didn't like my OS, so then I did that patch and of course the patch said that it wasn't gonna do anything until I had Dreamweaver... I dunno...

[RJSkon]

Eric

 

Here is something interesting evidentially the is no version 5.

On page, http://www.macromedia.com/support/dreamwea...s.html#updaters

For trail users of dreamweaver about 1/2 the way down the page, "Trial users (English only): If you have a trial version of Dreamweaver MX 2004 You can download the updater and extend your trial by 30 days. All you need to do is::

 

I don't know if that upgrader would help you any.

 

Rihard

[bellringr]

It went from 4 to MX to MX 2004

[ejh]

Ah hah... Thanks! Sometimes I wonder if these computer programmers forget to count or something. lol

[Samrc]

I throw my hat in the ring for CuteSite Builder for many reasons.

 

Easy to learn, simple to modify, no HTML work unless YOU choose to do so, pre-made templates or ability to design your own site from scratch using a wordprocessor like format. Many folks have dumped Front Page in favor of CSB and never looked back.

 

I have a fully detailed review of the product on this page that details what the product does, and its limitations. CSB product review

 

It's not the right option for everyone, especially folks that have done a lot of hand-coding and expect more control over that aspect. But if you want something that does the coding for you, and allows you to concentrate on the design and content, it's a nice program.

 

Final assessment: the price of the software, the ease of the program and the support make this program unbeatable for it's class.

 

BY THE WAY, bellringr, I TOTALLY agree with your assessment of ME!

Seriously. ME is nasty.

 

-Samantha

[tattoovampire]

It looks like that "HomeSite" isn't WYSIWYG... which is what I'm wanting. Thanks though Jim. Are there any more WYSIWYG software (maybe a little cheaper ) that's compatible with Windows ME?

Netobjects Fusion will run under any version of Windoze from 98x to XP. Read about it here.

[Samrc]

I use CuteSite Builder on ME (home) and on XP (office). (HATE ME but still use it...)

 

CSB runs well on both. Fully compatible. Easy to learn. 30 day free trial.

 

-Samantha

[ejh]

I have continued to mull this over, and the consensus seems to be- ERIC, GET DREAMWEAVER! With the hate for my current computer building, I'm thinking about kind of throwing in a new computer to , which would have XP which would mean Macromedia compatability woooot And because I'm a student, and jslagle's recommendation, I can get the Macromedia Studio MX for only $190 (Retail of $800) which includes, Dreamweaver, Fireworks, Flash and FreeHand. It sounds like FireWorks can do graphics, from your experience do I need to invest $300 in PhotoShop? Thanks guys!

[Deverill]

Any hard-core (read Professional) graphics artist would say yes to Photoshop.

 

Unless you are planning to make a living and/or carreer of doing graphics then Fireworks will be just fine. When I say "doing graphics" I mean more of the draw-your-own stuff than cropping, coloring, brightening, thumbnailing, etc.

 

All the stuff you do to pictures to put them on the web can be done just fine with Fireworks.

 

The studio flavor of Macromedia has Freehand which does some way-cool vector stuff that adds to the package.

[ejh]

I think I'll go minus Photoshop... Do you think I'll be okay? As there anything I'm missing that I should get? Thanks!!!

[Deverill]

Not that I'm a shining example or anything but I have a few clients and make enough bucks a month to pay for my DSL, hosting and Coke & Pizza so I'm doing ok. The only things I use on a regular basis for my websites are Firefox browser for research and the Multimedia MX2004 suite.

 

For normal web pages I think you'll do just fine. If you ever want to get into the more advanced stuff like user-updated-content you may need Contribute or if you want to make the next mega store you may need some credit card processing storefront management thing or another, but even that is provided free, at a basic level, from Paypal and Oscommerce.

 

Make sure that you want to go Multimedia versus the other packages out there (take advantage of trial downloads!) but when you do, if you choose that one you'll get all you need.

 

I'm not affiliated with MM, by the way, just happy with the product. I wish it was cheaper, but the educational discount you quoted is AWESOME!

[TCH-Thomas]

I throw my hat in the ring for CuteSite Builder for many reasons.

 

Easy to learn, simple to modify, no HTML work unless YOU choose to do so, pre-made templates or ability to design your own site from scratch using a wordprocessor like format. Many folks have dumped Front Page in favor of CSB and never looked back.

 

I have a fully detailed review of the product on this page that details what the product does, and its limitations. CSB product review

 

It's not the right option for everyone, especially folks that have done a lot of hand-coding and expect more control over that aspect. But if you want something that does the coding for you, and allows you to concentrate on the design and content, it's a nice program.

 

Final assessment: the price of the software, the ease of the program and the support make this program unbeatable for it's class.

 

BY THE WAY, bellringr, I TOTALLY agree with your assessment of ME!

Seriously. ME is nasty.

 

-Samantha

Agrees completely...

[joly]

Ok, I'm going to be the lone person here and say I love my Front Page 2003. LOL Only because I've read my How to book recently (after I jumped in and made an under construction page that had some problems...fixed now) and its my level, everything else is over my head.

I'm sticking to what works for me and reading all the posts on the forums in different areas of creating websites and what you all use to save up for later...when my brain grows! LOL

Joly

[Deverill]

I'm sticking to what works for me and reading all the posts on the forum

This is the key, Joly! A pencil is not much use to someone who needs to drive a nail into the wall! Your web development software is a tool. I can tell you which is best for me but unless I know you very well I can't say which is best for you!

 

I will, however, try to tell you which I think is the best for a particular kind of development if you ask.

 

There should be no shame in using any and all of the above... just do y'all's best to pick the best one for you and don't get stubborn if something better comes along.

 

Happy FP'ing Joly!

[joly]

Thanks Jim! I'm sure I'll be with FP for awhile. But I'm loading up on the info given here in the forums for later use when I move up to something more challenging.