Alternatives?

[bethohio3]

I'm being teased about using FrontPage, and admittedly it has some flaws, including generating tons excess html, etc.

 

However, it does provide some really nice features that I appreciate, especially since my web building is a hobby (my personal site) and a volunteer job (the regional site).

 

There are features that I *really* like:

• WYSIWG. I can code in pure HTML--but I don't want to
  
• Ease of publishing: it tracks what has changed so I don't have to
  
• Themes/styles: Easy to reuse the same color/font elements from page to page
  
• Ease of identical borders
  
• Ease of creating nav bars (including custom ones)
  
• Easy to move files around--FP updates the links for me
  
• Easy to set up the navigation scheme by drag and drop
  
• Works a lot like Word, so it's pretty intuitive
  
• Autothumbnail when I drag and drop a picture
  
• Wizard to create media files
  

Given those likes, what other options are there? I don't want to give any of those up. The additional features I would like:

• Better support for JavaScript
  
• Better support for PHP, especially within a formatted page
  
• Better ability to template (i.e. include a JavaScript on every page. I know it's possible in FrontPage, but haven't worked through that yet)
  

It'd help, too, to know the cost involved in the alternatives....

--Beth

[borfast]

Two words for you: Macromedia Dreamweaver

( http://macromedia.com/ or for a direct link for Dreamweaver try http://www.macromedia.com/software/dreamweaver/ )

[Lianna]

Beth,

 

Based on your level of expertise, I would certainly recommend Macromedia Studio MX (Dreamweaver and Firewords MX at the least)!

 

But it's pricey. I got the DW/FW 4 Suite at $100 off last year. They were running a special for current FrontPage users....supply them your serial number and they give you a discount... I do not know if they still have any kind of promotion like this, but it's worth checking into for that kind of break.

 

Lianna

[bethohio3]

Pricey is why I haven't bought it yet :-(

 

But I did get a new printer, new answering machine, and 2 new phones on Sunday. Dreamweaver would have been more fun.

 

Their website does not currently list FP as qualifying for a competitive upgrade, unfortunately. You had mentioned that before, Lianna, so I checked to see if it still applied, and it doesn't.

 

Oh well, gotta save my pennies.

 

--Beth

[SEO]

Beth:

 

For you, I too would recommend Macromedia MX.

 

You might want to write their customer support and tell them your are a FP user and would like to consider their product. You might be surprised by their response

[TCH-JimE]

I'm being teased about using FrontPage, and admittedly it has some flaws, including generating tons excess html, etc.

Sorry it was not meant as tease. Just a personnel thing due to the way I html code. You are correct though, the amount of extra uneccassry code that FP produces is vast and un-needed.

 

Now I love Dreamweaver. Have worked with it since v3, and now use there entire suite of Flash, Fireworks and Dreamweaver.

• WYSIWG.  I can code in pure HTML--but I don't want to
  
• Ease of publishing: it tracks what has changed so I don't have to
  
• Themes/styles: Easy to reuse the same color/font elements from page to page
  
• Ease of identical borders
  
• Ease of creating nav bars (including custom ones)
  
• Easy to move files around--FP updates the links for me
  
• Easy to set up the navigation scheme by drag and drop
  
• Works a lot like Word, so it's pretty intuitive
  
• Autothumbnail when I drag and drop a picture
  
• Wizard to create media files
  

 

I) Dreamweaver has 3 views, html, html/WYSIWG and WYSIWG. Now some other packages do the same too. One is cofee cup @ http://www.coffeecup.com/

 

II) Ease of publishing? Do you mean it copies up all the files required? If so Dreamweaver does give you the option of this.

 

III) ID borders? This is a FP only thing

 

IV) Nav bars are available in almost any HTML package you buy these days. Making your own is always better.

 

V) Files movement. Most packages will do this for you. Dreamweaver does this too.

 

VI) Navigation scheme? Only FP and Netobjects fusion do this. Other packages make you think about how you want the layout to be. Its best to draw a tree diagram and work from this as it makes it easier.

 

VI) Dreamweaver is not Microsoft, and at first glance can seem quite daunting. However the interface once understood is better, more powerful and less annoying then word.

 

VII) Auto thumbnail? No this is not a feature in MX. Again an MS only feature. (although if u mean does the picture appear in WYSIWYG then yes it does.

 

VIII) Again only an MS feature.

 

 

Given if you want the above and don't want to change, then I would suggest sticking to FP. However each option above you have listed can be done in some form or another via other packges which may or may not be free. However, Dreamweaver would still be my choice. It hasn't got the bells and whisltes of being a "easy to use" all in one package like MS FP has with its autothumbnail etc, but its because it hasnt got the bulk of these bells and whistles being the main reason I would promt for Dreamweaver.

 

Also it has excellant support for Javascript, PHP and all over web page languages. It also has a lovely template stucture too. (although I have learnt with time to do page includes which mean I don't have to rely on templates)

 

I work in an Education institution which means I get Dreamweaver MX for £25, I don't know if this is an option to you or not. I also have Dreamweaver 3.0 which was given away free on a magazine. I don't know if you would be intrested in this.

 

There are some other packages out there which are free or low cost. One is Coffee Cup, another is Hotmetal. A magazine we have here in the UK is .net whoose download site here at http://www.netmag.co.uk/downloads/default.asp? has quite a few packages on.

 

So overall, save them pennies and get Dreamweaver MX. Its not as cute and cuddly as MS, but its a better package overall.

 

Jim

[tastewar]

the amount of extra uneccassry code that FP produces is vast and un-needed.

 

Is it redundant, too, in addition to being extra, uneccassry (sic), vast and un-needed?

 

(shutup, Tom, before everyone notices you use FP)

[TCH-JimE]

Tom,

 

Put it like this. If your HTML code is like flying from New York to Los Angles, then Fp does it by flying via Austrilia. Its the same thing, just a lot longer.

 

Jim

[Lianna]

VII) Auto thumbnail? No this is not a feature in MX. Again an MS only feature. (although if u mean does the picture appear in WYSIWYG then yes it does.

 

Hey, but there is an addin that I got from the Macromedia Dev site that creates thumbnails automatically (using a Fireworks 'macro') kind of like a wizard. It takes the pix that you identify and creates a thumbs page. Then it also creates another page for each pic with the enlarged photo, caption and nav system. Here's a sample of my very first attempt at using the addin: http://pix.stoverdatasystems.net then click to view any of the 'albums'.

 

[TCH-JimE]

Cool

 

Well as pointed out, there are plugins (some free, some costing) that you get use with dreamweaver too

 

Nice baby (in the photos i mean)!

 

Jim

[tastewar]

Fp does it by flying via Austrilia.

 

Oh I know. I just thought it was ironic that in pointing out FP's long-windedness, you'd choose to use so many redundant words...

[nolageek]

Pricey is why I haven't bought it yet :-(

   

But I did get a new printer, new answering machine, and 2 new phones on Sunday.  Dreamweaver would have been more fun.

 

Their website does not currently list FP as qualifying for a competitive upgrade, unfortunately.  You had mentioned that before, Lianna, so I checked to see if it still applied, and it doesn't.

 

Oh well, gotta save my pennies.

 

--Beth

ALthough I would never <strikeout>admit to</strikeout> recommend it, "Back up copies" of Dreamweaver are quite abundant on the various Gnutella networks. You could check it out that way, to see if it's worth buying. I did that, but I hardly ever use it, so I uninstalled it and never looked back. I usually just handcode stuff using an editor that colorizes HTML/PHP code. I don't like WYSIWYG at all. I'll install it if I have a large image that I want to break up and align using tables, but that's about it.

[chuckmalani]

or you could DL a trial version to see if you actually like it. If you are creating your sites for commercial use, I would not recommend "borrowing" a $1000 suite of software from KaZaA

[TCH-JimE]

Hi,

 

Its not "borrowed" but was given away free on a CD magazine disk here in the UK and is version 3.0 so its quite old.

 

Sorry if I used so many reduandant words, my dyslexia lets me down at times!

 

Jim

[bethohio3]

Actually, none of my sites are commercial.

• I have a personal site, which is a family picture set and my writings and such.
  
• I have a organizational site, which I maintain as a volunteer.
  
• I own two other domains, which are currently empty (hosted at the cheapest plan before it was deactivated completely).
  
• I want to buy one more domain (for my son, since my daughter has her own domain)
  

But *none* of them are commercial, and I don't make any money from any of them, and I never will. That's what makes it so hard to justify the cost of a professional tool.

And for teaching the kids how to build web pages, it seems that dreamweaver might be overkill. I grant that FP is not a professional tool--but I don't need one for personal use.

 

(At work, I use JBuilder, and we build everything in JSP and Java code--no visual tools at all)

--Beth

[TCH-JimE]

Hi,

 

I dont teach the kids (students at 18!), i just produce pages for the university which entiltles me for the huge discount!

 

Jim

[Lianna]

Hey, Beth? If you want to teach your kids to build, try CuteSITE Builder instead! While I'd have to go back and look through your lists of wants/needs, I think that 70$ is well worth it. I use it for most of the sites that I develop for others. I only use DW/FW for those special little touches and effects then incorporate them into CSB.

[MRwisdom12]

I have switched from FP to Dreamweaver MX. Does anyone know if Dreamweaver can create formmail? That was so easy with frontpage and its wizards. I like dreamweaver much better, but the formmail is killing me. I would classify myself as an advanced beginner, and I spend SOOOOO much time researching and playing with new methods, I hardly get any web design done.

[Lianna]

Let me tell you what happens with a Frontpage form! Yesterday a client called and said, "Lianna, I'm getting delivery failure notices in my email for emails that no one here sent. The email header says it's coming from 'rj6die09nm3@mydomain' which is not an email account."

 

Well, 14,281 spam emails went through our mail server with almost 2000 still in queue! Access was gained by the spammer by using the UNSECURE email form on the domain's site.

 

Just be warned!!!!!!!

[tastewar]

Egad! Is there a primer on the help site for how to "properly" configure such a thing, if indeed it is possible? I don't have any need for mail stuff on the site today, but who knows...

[knucklehead]

Notepad!

[bethohio3]

Mikey,

I'm pretty sure Notepad doesn't support any of the features I'm looking for :-). Even if I wanted to write pure HTML (or pure HTML with JavaScript and PHP thrown in), I wouldn't use Notepad. I'd use something like Komodo or another true code editor. Heck, I'd use gnuemacs before I'd use Notepad! (At least gnuemacs knows when parentheses match)

--Beth