My Complaint To Bbb About Yahoo

[secretniche]

Complaint to BBB follows -

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

 

I believe that Yahoo for some reasons ignore web sites on Geocities (bought and owned/operated by Yahoo). A real reason why I'm submitting this complaint to BBB is that their offices keep ignoring not only web sites, but my complaints, too. They have never answered any of them. I want to receive a formal letter from yahoo's offices with explanations of such rude and unfriendly behaviour.

 

Respectfully, George Doudy.

 

 

My formal complaints to yahoo help desk follow -

------------------------------------------------------

 

I was searching for "Dillard Georgia rivervista"

 

Your engine did not return this obvious result -

 

http://www.geocities.com/atlanta_sauna2004/

 

Is it because yahoo ignores its own (geocities) sites?

Probably yes, because nobody ever answers these feedback forms, too.

 

atlanta_sauna2004@yahoo.com

 

 

 

Hi, there!

Your engine was not able to return a simple phone number listed 2 (!) months ago at this location -

 

http://www.geocities.com/atlanta_sauna2004/sample_index.htm

 

Does that mean that you for obvious reasons KEEP IGNORING geocities pages (This is my 4th complaint re geocities search by yahoo results. Not a single one was answered, either.) I will send a copy of this complaint to a BBB office.

 

 

Best Regards, George Doudy glossary101@yahoo.com

 

-------------------------------------------------------

Yahoo!

Inc. 701 First Avenue Sunnyvale, California 94089

 

Complaint submitted to - complaints@bbbsilicon.org

[TCH-Rob]

I searched "parts of sword" on Yahoo. Result 10 was ;

 

JAPANESE SWORD VISUAL GLOSSARY 

Japanese sword information including graphic presentations of the parts of the Japanese sword blade and types of mountings including katana and tachi. ... MAJOR PARTS OF THE JAPANESE SWORD BLADE. Japanese sword blades were/are made in a variety of lengths ... The buke-zukuri style of sword mounting is the most common type ...

www.geocities.com/alchemyst/glossary.htm - 10k - Cached - More pages from this site

 

Note the URL

 

What if any SEO have you done on your page?

[TCH-Thomas]

What does this have to do with website promotion?

[ThumpAZ]

I think he is just miffed that Yahoo!, owners of Geocities, does not seem to cache Geocities pages.

A good way to check is to compare to other engines... Did you try Google or any of the other popular engines? This will give you a little insight of where you are ranking in the indeces.

[TCH-Rob]

But look at my post Glenn, Yahoo does have Geocities pages in their results. I believe it is a lack of proper SEO techniques that is the underlying issue.

[BigDaddyJinx]

If it's a situation of SEO, I get a newsletter almost everyday from Site Pro News and they often go on about secrets of SEO. If needs be, I could always post the news here for all to see, or at least a link to the article.

 

It's likely that a query won't return any results if it's a more personal web page sort of deal, as I've dealt with that in the past. Can be done, but not without a degree of patience and the correct way of wording the query.

 

Also, I have noted that the bulk of "short url" companies have a hard time getting acknowledged by search engines as well. You can direct quote from a topic or page and there is no results at all. It's the way they mask the URL that keeps a lot of the spiders from accessing and indexing your pages.

 

Most notably though, is the obvious - we all get what we pay for. If you truly want to be "seen" in a search engine, paid inclusions seem to be the only effective way. On a side note, when you performed the search, how many pages did you look through, if any? Sometimes you are just a little lower in rank and have to go beyond the first 3 pages to see your site listing.

 

~BDJ

[TCH-Rob]

Why not look through our own offerings right here in our forums. What is the term being looked for also? There could be many reasons behind the apparent lack of a listing.

[DarqFlare]

Not that I'm trying to promote TCH here (Well ok I am!), but have you considered coming over here to TCH? For a paltry $4/month, you can get out of that hellhole... I used to be at Geocities myself and that place is downright horrible!

[secretniche]

The problem is - I have 3 geocities with Google PR 5, and 4 geocities with Google PR 4. Every (even including a French, very cute, flash-based) SE sees these sites just right. The only problem, and persistent, I have with Yahoo!(!!!).

 

Yahoo reads only one site - 5PR with an extensive DMOZ listing. The rest are invisible to it - even though a month ago I did a little testing , and registered one of them with yahoo's internal (geocities) directory. Result is the same - nowhere to be seen.

 

 

So it looks like a discrimination. Now why would Yahoo not be able to return a literal string such as a phone number from a site with PR 4?

 

And besides, my point specifically was that they do not answer my complaints. It's as if my (their) feedback forms are being redirected to "black hole" destination.

 

 

secret niche

[TCH-Rob]

I was searching for "Dillard Georgia rivervista"

 

Your engine did not return this obvious result -

 

http://www.geocities.com/atlanta_sauna2004/

 

This may sound silly but looking at your code and the phrase "Dillard Georgia rivervista" is not even on the page. Dillard Georgia is listed once and rivervista is not even on the page at all. I have a knife site, it is like me complaining that my site wont come up when I search cookies.

 

Your engine was not able to return a simple phone number listed 2 (!) months ago at this location

 

Based on the total number of web pages on the Internet it can take many months to get anything to list, two months is nothing compared to the time I have had to wait, some of us have waited a year to get listed in various engines and directories.

 

How long ago did you make your complaints. I am under the assumption that given the number of people that may send in a complaint that there may be a backlog of them. All the Internet users across the globe using Yahoo at any given time could mean many complaints to have to sift through. I don't know about them nor am I standing up for them but they may also believe that the complaint is not valid and chose not to respond to it.

 

That is neither here or there as I am not debating the validity of the complaint no doubting the validity of the listings or lack thereof. I am just offering options that may be the root of the problem and asking what techniques you have tried to get better rankings other than just possibly submitting the site and nothing more.

[secretniche]

rivervista is gone 2 hours ago since I've changed the contents. Phone number is still there, though.

 

In techicques, I'm mostly relying on relevancy and topic focus. Some research prove that it is possible to go up from 0 to 5 without any submission and link exchange, whatsoever. And this assumption has proved to be true. On 2 of these sites I did non do anything in terms of linking - and they're 4 now, in just 2 months, (I have started 6 of them all as testing grounds for my theory of relevancy, mid-April this year.) So it has worked.

 

As for the Yahoo behaviour, I believe they are blackballing me for what was my test glossary "French Cooking Glossary", to be exact, end of April, it just 1 week it went to #1 Top return in Yahoo, and stayed there for about 2 weeks before I went ahead and destroyed it (you see, testing and training). So, maybe I have offended their feelings, I don't know. But I never ever did spamming - since it would contaminate my testing procedures.

 

 

Thanks, TCH is a great new home. You folks, are a lot more friendlier than Yahoo toilers.

 

secret niche

[TCH-Rob]

I am not sure about the feelings things, I kind of doubt they care really. Lets look at your other sites.

 

politcentr has 24 backlinks and a PR of 5

 

prosvieta has 3 but from your politcentr site, PR 4

 

proslava has 30 backlinks and a PR of 5

 

glossary101 has 14 backlinks and a PR of 5

 

The others I looked at all have medium PR ratings on Google. The problem is that Google does things differently than Yahoo. You cant expect things that get results with Google to be the same with Yahoo, if that were the case then what would be the point of multiple search engines? We would all use Google and not care.

 

I dont know what Yahoo looks for but if it is keywords, description and word density I can see why the site is not on the list, especially if you are using Dillard Georgia rivervista as your search term.

[Deverill]

Rob has said much of what you need to consider but I'll throw in my opinion/knowledge too.

 

First and foremost, 2 months is a blink of an eye in the search engine world. I wouldn't expect a site to show up much quicker than that if it was very well connected to many other sites that are already indexed. A complaint to the BBB is certainly too much too soon in this case.

 

No search engine guarantees anything so there's really no case for the BBB to get involved. If they said "We index everything" or some other crazy promise of service then there would be a case but they just offer information. It's like blaming me for not listing your site on mine.

 

There are only 12 links to your site listed in Yahoo! that I could find.

Forums like this - 1

Guestbooks - 7

Link Farm - 1

Russian Site - 1

Directory - 1

Blog - 1

 

These are not the best "quality" links and some of the search engines are trying to eliminate many of these from their listings. I'd get more links from web sites that are related to yours. A link to a sauna&pool site from a blog or a baby site won't hold as much weight as from a landscaping company or a flooring site.

 

Forget everything said about PR. The only thing that counts is whether you get sales from the site. Quality links are very important but there don't seem to be any links to your site that you could live without. How many people at the site in Russian are going to buy one of your saunas? Moving this site to TCH would not be a particularly harmful move.

 

Entering your title into Google shows that Google knows about you, probably from a link to your site, but they have not indexed you either as evidenced by the missing Cache link.

 

You definitely need to optimize your site for the keyword phrases you are aiming for. There are tons of informative threads here that will help with that. Search Engine Optimization is a very complex beast and one can't hope to throw some words on a page and hope to rank highly for those words. I'm not saying that's what you've done, but you need to be more focused on what the potential customer will be searching for. As an example, if I wanted a sauna I wouldn't be searching on the phrase "Dillard Georgia rivervista".

 

Also, SEO takes a great deal of patience. If you change the keyword phrase optimizations today and make them perfect, it may take 2-6 months for your site to show up for those terms.

 

Remember that all engines are different. What ranks #1 at Google may not do well at Yahoo!. Google weighs links very heavily, Yahoo! focuses more on elements such as Title, headers, etc.

 

Some research prove that it is possible to go up from 0 to 5 without any submission and link exchange, whatsoever. And this assumption has proved to be true.

Sorry, but you're mistaken. PR is Google's measure of how popular your site is based only on links to your site and the PR of those sites. Without any links to your site whatsoever you will be a PR0. If AltaVista picks up your site then their PR will transfer to you. If a friendly person says "Hey, these are neat" and links to you then the PR transfers. If the web design company links to you for a portfolio then that PR transfers. Again, it's links to your site that make people come to buy your stuff that really counts. Many SEO experts say to uninstall the Google toolbar because the PR itself is not a useful measurement of anything that counts. You could get a million links to your site from widget companies across the world and have a PR9 but how many people buying widgets are likely to want a sauna to go with it?

 

Search Engines only look at web pages, not sites. If your French Cooking site was on the same address as the sauna, pool, jacuzzi site then the problem could very well be that you have been temporarily removed from the SEs because the whole site changed in nature. Many spammers will do this to "trick" the SEs to rank them highly. Many SEs will drop you until they get a chance to come back and see what you are really about now... which may take 2-6 months. If the cooking site was at a different address then Yahoo! doesn't know or care that it's by the same person as your current one.

 

It's long winded but I wanted to help you (and anyone else that happens upon this) understand a little better about the search engines and to clear up a couple of misconceptions. I hope it helps!

[secretniche]

Thanks, guys!

 

To Rob - well, actually rivervista was my testing checkword to check on this site fast, because of uniqueness of the word. And, besides, Rivervista Mountain Village

 

(River Vista Mountain Village - Georgia RV Resort & Fall's View at ...... tables, and restroom facilities. River Vista offers full hook-ups at all RV sites including cable TV and telephone. In addition to RV ...) is a major campground and rv sites rental and seller park located in Tampa, Florida, Atlanta, GA, and Dillard, GA with actual grounds in Dillard, GA - was a competitor (assumed). So I beat them on "dillard georgia rv rentals"

 

The thing about Yahoo is yes they show all my lame backlinks alright, all - from 0 and up PR. And all these results contain the URL of atlanta_sauna site. But they are trying real hard not to show the actual URL. In other words, Yahoo shows ALL references to and with this URL, but NEVER point to the URL directly. Why?

 

This mystery was and still remains the very exact reason for my indignation.

 

Can you tell me why?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

To Jim - Now that with all those 4 and 5's with Google I have nothing else to do but to go and ask for 5-6 pr links from relevant sites. That's correct, and that's the only option, anyway. But to get simply visible, noticed and recognized by SE - I have to admit, I shamelessly went an easy way, by way of linking to some hourly updated blogs and guestbooks.

 

Why make your life harder?

 

And my complaint to BBB is not about listing results - it is about their poor customer service (ignoring and not answering my reasonable complaints and relevant questions).

 

 

If I transfer a geocities site to TCH will I lose Google PR, that is, do I have to start from scratch all over again? Could you, please, explain to me how to do it safely?

 

 

Thanks y'all, from us at secret niche here in Georgia.

[BigDaddyJinx]

From what I've both seen and heard, if you "move" your sites here to TCH, the pages will have to be re-indexed in order to accomodate the new listing. Same info, same material, but new home. It would appear as though you would have to start from scratch.

 

But always get a second opinion

[TCH-Don]

You could put a link to your new site here,

then the search engines could follow the link here to get you a head start.

[secretniche]

I might want to ask Yahoos first (to rid me of their pop-up ads at least), although I hate to do this. I feel Yahoos just asking for $299 in exchange for missing geocities URLs.

 

 

secretniche

[ViergeUS]

Well, there are a couple factors at play here. One, proper SEO techniques need to be used in order for any website to have any display of proper keywording on search engines and/or directories. Two, Yahoo!, Google, AltaVista, Alexa, DogPile, Ask Jeeves, etc. all have at least a two week waiting period before they will start adding your site to their queue listing. A recommendation would be to buy an SEO program and submit it that way, or if you want to go an easier route, use a free submission service to save you the hassle. Make sure that you display valid keywords for your website though. Do not put "web design" in as a keyword if your website is "River Rafting in Deer Creek, Georgia". That's absurd, ridiculous and annoying to avid search engine users. Three, Yahoo!'s volume of emails is probably over what is normally expected from a web server. They probably receive at least 900,000 of the same email you sent them per day. I do agree that it would be nice if they would send you a reply, however, do not expect an immediate reply from a company that has a high volume of email. The email volume is what matters when you run a large community such as Yahoo!. Four, Yahoo! doesn't necessarily "hide" the URL. It's just not shown. Sometimes search engines decide in those nice corporate board rooms to block the showing of URLs due to complaints or something facing it. If a group of people on the "GeoCities" site (I don't really think you can call it a server) decided to complain to Yahoo! about how bad the site was, then yes, it would be required by Yahoo! to address the complaints of the people. Complaining to the BBB may not have been the best route, but it works for now. I would recommend waiting if this problem ever arises again. Patience is virtue.

[secretniche]

Hi, ViergeUS!

 

You know, you are right about patience and a little help from BBB.

 

Here's what I've just received from Yahoos.

 

--------------start letter-------------------------

 

 

Hello,

 

Please try entering your search criteria again. I just tested it and

it

appears as listing #3 in the directory.

 

Regards,

 

Rex

 

Yahoo! Customer Care

 

For assistance with all Yahoo! services please visit:

 

http://help.yahoo.com/

 

 

 

--------------end letter---------------------------

 

 

 

secretniche ( http://secret-niche.com/)

[Deverill]

To Jim - Now that with all those 4 and 5's with Google I have nothing else to do but to go and ask for 5-6 pr links from relevant sites. That's correct, and that's the only option, anyway. 

Not exactly. A bunch of relevant PR4's will help with Google more than a couple of unrelated PR6's would in most cases.

 

But to get simply visible, noticed and recognized by SE - I have to admit, I shamelessly went an easy way, by way of linking to some hourly updated blogs and guestbooks.

Absolutely nothing wrong with this... but they were the only links I could find so your "Search Engine credibility" is a little low. That is to say, if the SE wants to recommend saunas to someone, your site may not be at the top of their list because of the unrelated links. (This is not an official measure - just a term I made up.)

 

If I transfer a geocities site to TCH will I lose Google PR, that is, do I have to start from scratch all over again? Could you, please, explain to me how to do it safely?

The correct way to do it would be to put a Permanent Redirect link on the old server but since you are with Geocities you won't be able to do that. If you get all your linkers to change their links to your domain here then it would only be a few weeks before you got back to where you are now in most cases.

[secretniche]

Thanks, Jim!

 

So I will go with Permanent Redirect link option, alright then.

 

Mu complaint to BBB had a strange afterefect, though. Most of my Geosities sites are being updated with googlebot much more frequently now than they used to.

[X-Files theme music sounds in the background of this message...]

 

secretniche