Netscape, Mozilla and CSS

[sts]

I just realized that thesebrowsers don't understand fixed font size! They don't care you wrote "font-size: 10px;" if you click 'Text Zoom' they zoom everything.

I wanted to use this fancy DHTML navigational bar thing, but it's ugly and useless if zoom is not 100%

What do you do disregard netscapers and mozillers or use another navigation?

According to my statistics 4% of visitors are netscapers

[davejenbarnes]

 

what do you mean by

if zoom is not 100%

???

 

I'm on Mozilla right now and it just has ... increase text size one level or decrease one level... not percentages (lemme check Netscape real quick) AHHH Netscape has percentages. Uh, I say go ahead and do it, then reply with the link and have us check it out for you and give you some feedback.

 

Jennifer

[vangrieg]

sts

 

They don't care you wrote "font-size: 10px;" if you click 'Text Zoom' they zoom everything.

 

That's one of the points of CSS/modern web standards/accessibility/etc/etc. The user should have the ultimate control over the presentation, not the author. If I feel the font size is too small, I should have the ability to make it larger. FYI, there are other browsers out there, and IE isn't even available on platforms other than Windows (there's an ancient piece of code for Mac, but it's just a pain, not a browser).

 

Also, I don't know what kind of statistics you get. Many browser detection scripts will mislead you. They can misidentify Opera as IE or Mozilla, for example. Some scripts even show non-existent Netscape 5.

 

And the last comment. When you say Netscape, what do you mean? NN4? NN7? Those are very different programs having nothing in common except for the name.

[sts]

Oh, I forgot to duck!

I meant NN 7.1 and Mozilla 1.5 [btw this Mozilla has zoom]

I get extremetracking statistics [free]

 

Designer should give user the ability to make font size larger, still, the designer should have the ability to fix font size sometimes. To make beautiful navigation for example

 

Here it is

 

url removed

 

 

Not to mention that NN and M won't show the effects

I'd appreciate if somebody with IE 5-something could look at it. It probably won't show the effects either or Opera?

[vangrieg]

sts

 

Designer should give user the ability to make font size larger

 

Nah, you got it all wrong. You (designer in this case) don't give me the ability, I already have it if I have a capable browser, regardless of your will.

 

As for the "beautiful" navigation, think about this. You are trying to force me to enable Javascript, for example, and I may have reasons not to. There are blind people who won't be able to use screen readers on your site. There are devices other than PCs that might not be able to render Javascript. If this "beauty" is so important to you, you should at least provide fallback options.

 

Concerning the fact that NN or Mozilla don't show your effect, you should only blame yourself (or whatever software you use), not the browsers. They (just like IE5 and Opera) are quite capable of rendering drop-down menus.

[sts]

It's not nice to say 'blind' you should say *vision impaired*

[TCH-Rob]

I knew a lady that ran a cafeteria in one of the state buildings I used to work in. I said "vision impaired" and her response made me laugh. She said "Honey, vision impaired is after a few too many beers, I am blind".

 

I think the cook was too but that is another story.

Edited January 8, 2004 by TCH-Rob

[sts]

I was being sarcastic

 

You see this domain we [my hubby and me] have, very politically incorrectly named stufftoSEE, is very politically incorrectly aimed to sighted audience and the site is going to be mostly graphic so I don't know what people with screen readers will be doing there I personally don't plan to provide full description of every picture. Because I'm that bad, yeah

 

And, vangrieg, although beauty is important to me, I'd be happy to use non-Java stuff [simply because I'm not good at Javascript].

Could you provide an example of non-Java drop-down menu with submenus, please?

[vangrieg]

sts

 

Could you provide an example I%20can,%20but%20it%20won't%20work%20in%20any%20version%20if%20IE,%20since%20it's%20a%20hopelessly%20outdated%20browser.%20You%20can%20check%20out%20one%20example%20here:%20%5burl=http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/css/edge/menus/demo.html%5dhttp://www.meyerweb.com/eric/css/edge/menus/demo.html"] of non-Java drop-down menu with submenus, please?

 

I can, but it won't work in any version if IE, since it's a hopelessly outdated browser. You can check out one example here: http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/css/edge/menus/demo.html

 

There are a lot of "cross-browser" JavaScript solutions out there, you can just search Google. I can't give you an advice here because I personally don't like such menus and therefore never use them.

[sts]

Thanks, I've seen that page already. Can't use it unfortunately because most of my visitors use outdated browsers:

 

MSIE 6 --------13242 -----67.37%

MSIE 5 --------5313 ------27.03%

Netscape 7 ---427 --------2.17%

Netscape 3 ---244 --------1.24%

MSIE 4 --------143 --------0.72%

Netscape 4 ----135 --------0.68%

AOL 4 ----------135 --------0.68%

Other ----------12 ----------0.06%

AOL 3 ----------3 -----------0.01%

 

Netscape 4.10% - MSIE 95.13% - Other 0.76%

 

I think this way of navigation is neat and user friendly

[borfast]

Sorry, I thought I had replied to this earlier. Go to opencube.com and check out their QuickMenu (hey, they just revamped their web site! Nice! )

 

Edit: Seems they have a new tool to create menus. Haven't tried it but it seems nice. Unfortunately they still only know Windows, so if your OS is something else, you're out of luck.

Edited January 9, 2004 by TCH-Raul

[vangrieg]

sts

 

most of my visitors use outdated browsers:

 

Sure. I'm not from another planet, and I've heard about Microsoft.

 

The reason why those menus don't work in IE is because it doesn't support :hover on arbitrary elements. When I needed to make an effect like this (not a menu though), I did this: I created class .onhover which was similar to :hover, and an onmouseover event for IE doing something like document.getElementById(idOfElementHovered).className = "onhover" (of course this should be removed onmouseout). It's just a few lines of code, but it solves the problem for most browsers and platforms including smartphones. (And, more importantly, the future versions of browsers).

 

And of course, there should be a fallback option for people with Javascript disabled. At least the top-level menu options should be accessible anyway.

[vangrieg]

h

[sts]

Thanks Raul! I like their menu. At least page doesn't look ugly if you increase font size.

 

Thanks vangrieg, but I'm afraid I'm too technically challenged even for a few lines of code

And sure, I have v. original solution for Javascript disabled people - they will get "go to the site map" button