Linux Question

[TCH-Thomas]

Have I understood correct if there are different "versions" of Linux?

 

If yes, which version is the most easy to learn (or most Win XP look a like)?

 

Also if yes, does all vulnerabilities listed on this page concern all of those versions:

http://secunia.com/search/?search=linux&w=0

[TCH-Bruce]

No to scare you Thomas but the true interface to any *nix system is the command line like you had in DOS. There are several graphical interfaces to run on top of it like Gnome, KDE, X and others.

 

Can't tell you which one would be easier, I work from the command line most of the time.

[Madmanmcp]

most easy to learn

 

If you do not have a lot of time...stick with what you have

[MikeJ]

As far as Linux distributions that are pretty easy to install and configure, I've heard good things about Mandrake (although I've never used it myself).

[stevevan]

Thomas:

 

I've had Win2k and Fedora Core 2 (FC2) both set up on my system. That way, I can still use windoze when I need to. However, I'm finding I'm using FC2 more and more. Mandrake (I've heard) is one of the more user-friendly versions to learn Linux on. But the good part is, no matter what "flavor" of Linux you wish to try, there is a TON of information availabile on the internet. I've spent hours just pouring over different websites digesting Linux info. On a more personal note, using Linux has made me learn the insides of my computer a little better and how things all inter-operate! There is a learning curve, as there would be to any new program or software, but in my opinion, the advantages far outweigh not trying to learn Linux!

 

Hopefully the Linux-god Raul will chime in with some great insight for you! (BTW...speaking from experience, he's also a fantastic source of information!)

[TCH-Rob]

Yep,

 

Raul has good info. I use BSD and Win2K myself, Win for the DVD's and BSD for everything else. I think it is a good thing to try and learn but read up on the disrto you want to try first and make sure you understand the basics of the install process. Dont want you to loose everything on your Win side if you dont have to.

[borfast]

Linux-god? Me? When do I get my statue and sacrifices in my honour? :P

 

Seriously now, Thomas, you give too much importance to those "security advisories" you see on Secunia

 

You will always see security advisories for any software product. What you should worry about is not how many you see but how many of those are fixed in a timely fashion. In this field, it's not hard to beat Microsoft, and thus, considering you use Windows as your main operating system, you have absolutely nothing to worry about when it comes to Linux's security problems

 

As for the different versions, they're usually called "distributions". Coming from a world of greedy software makers (Microsoft and Windows), you'll probably find this strange but I'll try to make it simple: there's no such think as a "Linux Operating System". Hum... perhaps that was a bit "too" simple, huh?

 

Let's give it another try. You see, Linux is not the graphical environment, the command line, the browsers, the text editors or any of the other millions of software packages that exist for it. Linux is just an operating system kernel. A kernel is the very sould of the OS. It's the interface layer that organizes how programs are run, when and where each of them can access the system memory/hard disk and many other low-level tasks.

 

Apart from Linux, there is a kind of philosophy, the Free Software movement (sometimes also known as Open Source Software, although some people will say they are two different things). Thousands of developers from all over the world, following the Free Software philosophy, created hundreds of small software tools, which, as part of the Free Software movement, could be used by anyone for any purpose, including access to the source code and the right to modify and improve the software.

 

Nowadays, the Linux Kernel and Free Software packages are tied together so tightly that people call the whole group a "Linux operating system". What distribution makers do is grab the Linux Kernel and the Free Software packages that they find useful/necessary and bundle them all under one single distribution

 

There are lots of Linux distributions out there. You can get an idea of how many and the purpose of each one on Distro Watch. And the great thing about all this is that there are no software packages written specifically for one Linux distribution. Generaly speaking, as long as it was written for Linux, it will run unmodified on any Linux distribution. Sometimes, lower-quality software will have problems but it's not very common.

 

Some linux vendors prefer to include some packages, while others' opinion will differ and they'll prefer other packages. You have to see which packages you prefer and chose the distribution that fits your needs. Ultimately, if you need software from more than one distro, you can chose the one that pleases you most (the one that has the prettiest desktop, the best office package, whatever) and later you can install the software you need that doesn't come with that distribution by default

 

If this sounds a lot more complicated than it should be, don't worry. It's all a matter of giving the user the possibility of chosing what he wants instead of what the software developer thinks is right. And there are some distributions out there that address this concern: they also offer you the possibility of chosing which desktop environment you want as well as a lot more other options but, by default, they will be installed with the most user-friendly packages, making for the best possible beginner user experience.

 

Usually, a beginner will chose a distribution that has an easy instalation process, non-destructive partitioning tools, the possibility to automatically shrink the Windows partition to make room for Linux on the hard drive and a user friendly package selector. I believe that Mandrake wins on all these points. Fedora Core is also pretty good but perhaps not as simple as Mandrake - it's not complicated, just not as simple/friendly/pretty as Mandrake.

 

Fedora Core is usually more up to date and includes more recent packages. It also has more software packaged for it than Mandrake. Those are about the two main advantages of Fedora over Mandrake. Other than that, I believe Mandrake is better for a beginner. By the way, they just launched Mandrake Linux 10.1.

 

Give it a try. As Steve said, you can have Windows and Linux installed at the same time, so if there's something that you don't know how to do with the Penguin, you can go back to the world of BSoD's

 

One important note: make a backup of everything before attempting to install Linux. Not because it will ruin your hard disk (although sometimes, as Bruce Willis said, "s$%t happens") but because it's not impossible that you make some kind of mistake and wipe out your entire Windows instalation. It's not very likely but just in case...

 

 

Edit: OK, another book, written by me... Man, when am I gonna learn to write short messages about Linux?

Edited September 23, 2004 by TCH-Raul

[boxturt]

THAT was a good read Raul. Thanks.

[borfast]

Thanks, Ty.

Glad you liked it

[borfast]

Just a little clarification: when I say that there are no software packages written specifically for one Linux distribution, I mean the software application, the program...

 

I wanted to clarify this because I also mention "software packaged for Fedora Core".

 

These are two different things. Software written for Linux will run on any Linux system (generaly speaking). But each distribution has its way of keeping track of which sotware applications it has installed. Usually (always?) this means that someone (the packager) will grab the original software and put it in a nice "box" specific for his distribution.

 

Think of it as an installer, a "setup.exe" program for the application. Although you can get the original application and run it without any problems on any Linux distribution, if you want to use an installer, you'll need to get the correct installer for your distribution.

 

So when I said that Fedora has more software packaged for it, I meant that there are more software applications that have an "installer" for Fedora Core. Usually the only difference is that it's easier to install a software packaged for your distro. Sometimes packagers also make small changes to the original software, in order to improve it or make it work better with the rest of that distribution's packages.

 

Hope that clears it up

Edited September 23, 2004 by TCH-Raul

[TCH-Rob]

I was going to ask about that. Thanks for the clarification.

[TCH-Thomas]

Thanks Raul, I will read all this a little later today when I am more awake, but about the security stuff... Its just that I have gotten the impression that Linux is so much safer and when seeing all those advisories, I ask myself is it worth it to go from one bunch of problem to a new bunch that actually looks to be a pretty big bunch too.

[borfast]

Thomas, if you go with one of the big distributions, like Fedora Core or Mandrake, you have nothing to worry about, as they are constantly updating their packages. So, even though you will see many advisories, chances are that when you read something about it, you'll have already patched it

[TCH-Rob]

Thomas,

 

Dont rush into it either. If Windows isnt broke, dont be in a hurry to get away from it just because. Take your time, see if you can find a way to dual boot or better yet, get a copy of feather linux or one of those that can be used from a CD Rom and try it out first. I am all for you trying a new OS but dont want you to jump in too fast and not be able to get back something you lost.

[borfast]

I completely agree with Rob.

 

Here's a list of Linux LiveCD distributions. The most famous is probably Knoppix. Give it a try

 

By the way, a "Linux LiveCD" distribution is a Linux distro that you can boot and work from the CD-ROM. No need to install it on the hard drive - you don't even need to have a hard drive

[TCH-Thomas]

Edit: OK, another book, written by me... Man, when am I gonna learn to write short messages about Linux?

I think you should ask if theres a publisher in this forum. Who knows, you could become rich on this.

 

Thanks everyone for having my weekend fixed.

Now Im just gonna survive friday evening with a wondeful woman, then I can read all about Mandrakes, Knoppix´s and distros this and that. (Phew).

For those who wonder how I can say that: NO, Jessica and I are not married.

[stevevan]

Raul's statue:

[borfast]

LOL

 

Yes, I guess that would be appropriate, Steve

[TCH-Thomas]

Raul's statue: 

How about this one?

[stevevan]

Excellent Thomas! I love it!

 

I wonder if it is available as a stuffed toy for Christmas?

[TCH-Rob]

Speaking of Tux. Anyone see the one of him in the yellow and black motorcycle suit and katana ala Uma with the Kill Bill tag line?

[borfast]

Nice, Thomas

And Steve, a stuffed version of that would definitely be worth seing

 

Haven't seen that one yet, Rob. Where did you see it?

Edited September 25, 2004 by TCH-Raul

[TCH-Thomas]

I modified my god attachement a little. See above.

[stevevan]

All hail Raul!

[TCH-Don]

[borfast]

That's right, I'm the man!

LOL

[TCH-Rob]

Raul, I was at one of our customers sites and saw it. I will have to look for it again.

[TCH-Dick]

Well I just setup Fedora Core 2 for a test server. I like it so far but I know just enough to screw it up. As soon as I figure out why Apache will not start I should be ok.

[TCH-Rob]

Raul,

 

Found it.

 

http://www.splitreason.com/productdetail.php?id=99

 

I was on Omegas site and saw it in the forums

[borfast]

Sweet! I think I'm going to order one of those t-shirts ;)

 

Dick, check the error Apache and/or error logs to try to figure out what went wrong.

 

You have a graphical tool under the System Tools menu to do that, if you don't want to fetch them by hand (usually in /var/log).

[TCH-Dick]

I got it working but I honestly don't know how. I set it to load on boot and tried to start it manually but nothing worked. I think I screwed up something, because after installing updates it suddenly begin to work.

[borfast]

Dick, I don't know how you were trying to start it but Fedora's Apache is supposed to run as a service. I can't remember exactly what but I recall that when I tried running it as a regular program, it had some problems. Perhaps that's what was going on?

[champagnemojo]

Raul, you really should write a book...you already have the first chapter. JiKrantz, listen to the live-cd suggestion. It's a very good recommendation. Knoppix has some great hardware detection, so you have to do far less configuration.

 

I'd recommend that you check out Kanotix. It's a live-cd...a fork of Knoppix in fact. These live-cds can be installed onto your hard-drive after you get comfortable with them. Kano has taken Knoppix and made everything work much more smoothly for those who choose to install it to their hard-drive. It's pretty easy to install...and basically gives you a Debian install. And we all know that Debian is the best linux distro.

[joef]

Jikrantz:

 

Hi. I'm going to give you some different advice, or at least some different options. If you really want a Windows look-alike that's easy, try Lycoris or Linspire or Xandros. You'll have to pay, but they're automatic and very Windows-like. If you search out the cheap Linux CD sites you can probably find them real cheap. The conventional wisdom, however, is to buy a distro with a book and all that. That's how I started.

 

If you want free and very easy, try Suse Linux personal 9.1. It's excellent and freely downloadable (a change for Suse). It's also part of Novell's new Linux empire, so it's got a big dog behind it. The manual in their box set is excellent, too. Borders (or whatever) should have it.

 

If you want to learn something about Linux, load up Slackware. People will say I'm crazy, but I've tried 15 or 20 distributions (I have a spare computer to play with) and Slackware is easily the best. It's simple and dead, rock-solid stable. The only OS crash I've ever had is when I tried to use ATI's drivers instead of going with the Slackware default. Haven't had another crash in, oh, a year or better. And I routinely leave my machine up without a reboot for two or three weeks. And if you want pretty, Dropline makes a tweaked version of Gnome for Slackware that's as pretty as anything out there (and I use OS X at work).

 

Mandrake has never worked well for me. I don't know why, as I've tried it on three different machines, but it just likes to crash more than any other distro I've tried. Fedora Core is very nice, as is Mepis, which has a lot of momentum right now. It's supposed to be as easy as anything out there. I used it for a couple of days, but it didn't do anything for me that my main Slackware box didn't already do.

 

The thing to remember is that any of these distros can be set up to look like Windows. You can configure KDE or Gnome to look and act pretty much just like Windows. Most distros give you more control over your desktop environment than Windows or Mac OS does.

 

I came at Linux from the Mac side, and I've got to tell you, I'm happy. I use it exclusively (though my wife still uses Windows). You can kiss your spyware, malware, etc. woes goodbye (though you can still be hacked if you present a plump enough target).

 

Good luck,

 

joe f.