Mailing List Script And Timeouts

[editor]

I publish a newsletter with 1100 subscribers and growing. Thus far I have

handled the individual subscribes and unsubscribes manually, but I am

looking to automate the process and improve my mailing procedures at the

same time.

 

I have been reviewing various mailing list systems and have found one

(PHP-based txtList at http://txtbox.co.za/p_txtlist.php ) that seems to

work well and is simple enough for me to understand (a novice with very

basic understandings of perl and PHP).

 

I would be using txtList to mail my newsletter. It can be configured to

mail 50 messages and then pause 300 seconds before mailing 50 more, thus

allowing me to adhere to TCH's e-mail sending limitations. While reviewing

various CGI and PHP mailing systems I encountered this warning: "Sending

email takes time and if you are sending to a large list it can take a

while. Some hosting companies will limit the time a CGI script can execute.

Since most CGI scripts only take a few seconds to execute, that is not

usually a problem. With the mailing list, however, there may not be enough

time to send out all your messages before your server returns a timeout

error."

 

By my calculations, this PHP script would need almost two hours to mail the

newsletter to all subscribers. Do I need to be concerned about it timing

out somewhere in the process, leaving me wondering who got their

newsletters and who didn't? Does TCH enforce timeouts on running scripts?

[surefire]

One of the mods would answer this better, but with a large list, like yours, I would start thinking of outsourcing it to a third party that does nothing but manage newsletters and email lists.

 

I am almost certain that your script would timeout after 30 seconds. But again, a mod can answer that one.

 

If you are intent on hosting the mailing list on the server, then you are going to need to set up a script that sends out a batch and stops and then trigger the script via a cron job. You will also need some code that tells your mailer where on your list you left off.

[annie]

I used to send out newsletters to a big list via mailman. Too much stress!

[vikkic]

I'm in the same boat - a mailing list of under 2000 people. Will Mailman not do this?

I've been using dada mail but have come across these same limitations of server time out in a cgi-bin process...

 

An opt-in mailing list is such an important sales tool, but how then you can run it on TCH servers?

 

 

VikkiC

[editor]

An opt-in mailing list is such an important sales tool, but how then you can run it on TCH servers

For some, an important sales tool. For others like me, the sole reason for

my presence on the Web! I've just started my second year with TCH and I

would not hesitate to recommend it to others in need of a high quality Web

host. The only complaint I have concerns the e-mail limitations. I

understand the necessity to guard against spammers and their abuses, but it

would certainly be helpful if some accommodation could be made for those of

us who responsibly operate large double opt-in mailing lists. I, for one,

would be willing to pay extra for the *unrestricted* ability to send mail

to my 1100 subscribers. How 'bout it, Head Guru?

[TCH-Rob]

I, for one, would be willing to pay extra for the *unrestricted* ability to send mail to my 1100 subscribers.

 

The only way I can see this is if you had a dedicated server with your very own IP address.

 

Why you may ask? If someone reports you as spam for one reason or another and you are on a shared server with any other customer all of you are considered spammers and will be added to black lists.

 

You may not get reported but what if someone else does? Then you still are on the list and cant send.

 

Ever try Lyris?

[editor]

Ever try Lyris?

If you're referring to Lyris Technologies software and services for

email marketing and publishing, great stuff -- but far to pricey for my

non-profit to afford (as would be a dedicated server, I suppose).

 

I understand the dynamics of shared servers and blacklists. Not to put

too fine a point on it, but couldn't someone report you as a spammer

"for one reason or another" when theirs was the only email message you

sent out that day? People sometimes do some very strange things that

have nothing whatever to do with mail volume alone.

 

I send mail only to those who ask for it (opt-in). Those who no longer

wish to receive my mail are unsubscribed immediately. I suppose the

thought behind my suggestion above was something like, "I'll pay you

extra so that you can afford to monitor my actions to ensure that I'm

the responsible mailer that I claim to be." Impractical? I really don't

know. I'm just trying to field some suggestions with a view to finding a

solution that benefits both sides.

[TCH-Rob]

Not to put too fine a point on it, but couldn't someone report you as a spammer "for one reason or another" when theirs was the only email message you

sent out that day?

 

Sure they can. Think of this as well, we have 70 odd servers with a couple hundred ( give or take ) customers per server. With the amount of staff here, and I don't mean those like me who's usernames are blue but the red ones, it would be a difficult undertaking just to devote the time to monitor one site like that let alone many if it were offered. From my perspective it isn't practical to be able to offer a service like that.

 

A staff member can chime in and say for sure but you might only be able to accomplish something like that with your own server.

[vikkic]

So then are you saying that Mailman isn't useful for a newsletter? (After I spent all that time setting it up and testing it?!?!?!).

 

Is there any TCH server software that will send a newsletter? How are you sending your's out, editor?

 

 

VikkiC

[editor]

So then are you saying that Mailman isn't useful for a newsletter?  (After I spent all that time setting it up and testing it?!?!?!).

 

Is there any TCH server software that will send a newsletter?  How are you sending your's out, editor?

I have no experience with Mailman, though it would appear that all mailing

programs and scripts are subject to TCH's email sending limitations (no

more than 50 messages every 5 minutes), and that presents real problems for

those of us with large opt-in lists.

 

I have tried a variety of mailing methods (Group Mail Pro software through

TCH's and my ISP's SMTP servers, standalone SMTP servers like WorldCast as

well as the script I mentioned at the beginning of this thread) and none of

them have proven dependable or efficient. I keep returning to sending BCC:

mail through MS Outlook Express. Yes, it's low-tech and outrageously

slow-going because of the aforementioned limitations, but it's reliable and

I know my subscribers are going to get whatever I send them. There has got

to be a better -- and affordable -- way.

 

My former Web host offered static IP's with each account and I was able to

mail without restrictions. In those days my subscriber base was much

smaller and I never even considered the ramifications of not having the

unlimited capacity to send mail as my opt-in list grew.

 

I have started a thread in the "Backend Services" forum (URL below)

concerning Dedicated IP's (something apparently available from TCH under

certain circumstances). I have no idea whether the circumstances we're

talking about here qualify, but a Static IP seems like at least one

reasonable and cost-effective solution to our unique problems.

 

http://www.totalchoicehosting.com/forums/i...showtopic=10388

[vikkic]

I'll go join there too - but I had a static IP at my last server (I've only been with TCH for 4 days) and that wasn't the answer. It still sent only 50 messages every 5 minutes. Why do you think that getting a static IP will solve the email limit?

 

If you buy a secure cert you get a static IP - if I knew that I'd be able to send out a newsletter for sure if I had a static IP, that would be the way to go. It's $140 something or so a year I think ($100 and a bit for the cert yearly and $35 for one time installation).

But the question would be - then would Mailman work to send out a few thousand email messages with the static IP for sure?

 

I'm sure you could send them out on a dedicated server but that really is pricey.

 

My other (strange) thought was to install the bulletin board, have an announcement only area and then have people subscribe to topic updates. They'd get all the announcements emails, though they would have to log in to see them. Inelegant - but maybe simpler than anything else we're looking at. And it would only work for a newsletter/announcement type list.

 

 

VikkiC

[MikeJ]

Keep in mind that the email restrictions are not there soley for the purpose of preventing spamming. Shared systems are just that... shared. If you send out a large amount of email all at once, this uses up resources that others are using (mail) which can slow down delivery for other users when you are filling up the mail queue for mail to be sent. The most effective way to manage large mailing lists would be to have multiple separate redundant mail servers to deal with the load (if it were to be supported en mass), but TCH's primary focus is on low cost webhosting, not providing mass mailing services.

 

Even with a static IP, we wouldn't change the emailing policy for a shared host client. Your best options if the TCH email restrictions are too restrictive for your needs, is to either look into a dedicated server, or look at outsourcing options for your mailing list. I'm not making this statement because we don't want your business, or don't value you as a customer. It's because TCH has to stay focused on what currently makes sense for us to provide to our mass customer base, and what although might be nice to have, but doesn't make sense in TCH's business model at this point.

[TCH-Dick]

MikeJ nailed it. As far as programs like dada, if you do experiance time outs try changing up the amount of mail sent over a period of time, instead of sending 50 e-mails every 5 minutes, try sending 15-20 e-mails every 2-3 minutes.

 

I use dada for my mailing list its not huge, only 200 or so subscribers, I have it set to 10 e-mails every 2 minutes and it has never timed out.

 

As far as paying extra for someone to monitor your e-mail activities, thats just not a viable option. I handle 90% of the abuse issues (spam,copryrights,server abuse). Some days I see 100's of spam complaints. The problem is usually not end users reporting something as spam, but automated spam detection scripts or software. If some ISP detects your mailing as spam, and there are enough complaints that IP gets blacklisted and it can take weeks to get an IP off a blacklist. AOL and Raodrunner are the WORST to deal with.

[vikkic]

Dada still times out because of the cgi limitation - it's not a crone job and is limited to 300 seconds.. That's why I was going to Mailman for my newsletter.

 

So basically what this all boils down to is that there isn't any way to send a large mailing list through servers?

If I know that I'll stop asking my questions and go find another way - even if it's an outsourced third party. I just didn't know that Mailman was so restricted and am glad I found out before I put any more time into it...

 

 

 

VikkiC