TCH-Thomas Posted August 24, 2004 Posted August 24, 2004 I visited a site today which had a ad saying Note: This site might appear to be buggy and broken to you because your browser is outdated and does not fully support the web standards. To view the web in the way it should be, a standard compliant browser is recommended. Thank you. If I visit that site with the latest I.E how can I then have outdated browser? <_> Quote
TCH-Bruce Posted August 24, 2004 Posted August 24, 2004 The more I use IE the more I realize it is not a standards compliant browser the way W3C defines the way things should be. I've found more weirdness between IE and Firefox that I prefer to use Firefox. Some sites (like my bank site) require me to use IE to work correctly. Quote
skeptismo Posted August 24, 2004 Posted August 24, 2004 Unfortunately Bruce here in Greece the same thing happen. Most e-banks requires (!!) IE 5.0 + above OR Netscape 4.x (NOT 6 or 7) for compatibility to their sites Even the No1 ebank here uses these settings, eventhough the last year half of new viruses/attacks had to do with IE vulnerabilities ! Answering to my emails (regarding security etc. etc) those banks said me very nicely that they will try to fix the compatibility of their sites to be more IE undependant ! (in meanwhile I use only FireFox & Mozilla to browse the web, and IE only on these sites) My suggestion is to do so everyone (Mozilla + Firefox are much-much faster than IE, are very low in memory consumption, and are very small downloading newer versions ! FireFox is only 4.8MB !!) After all it's time to contribute to Open Source a little bit Thumbs Up Greetings, Panayiotis Quote
TCH-Thomas Posted August 24, 2004 Author Posted August 24, 2004 The more I use IE the more I realize it is not a standards compliant browser the way W3C defines the way things should be. I agree, but I still dont understand how latest can be outdated. Quote
skeptismo Posted August 24, 2004 Posted August 24, 2004 It's because IE is ALWAYS outdated ! Rock Sign Quote
Deverill Posted August 24, 2004 Posted August 24, 2004 Thomas, It's not so much that IE is outdated as it is that IE is not "standards compliant". Microsoft still doesn't understand that when international groups like W3C come up with a standard it is important for them to make their browsers follow that standard. Microsoft still thinks they can do whatever they want in whatever way they want without any problems but people like Mozilla are showing them it's not true. Quote
TCH-Thomas Posted August 24, 2004 Author Posted August 24, 2004 I know Jim But what I am against in that "ad" is that it says that any browser than the one they want people to download, Mozilla, is probably outdated. If it just said it probably dont follow web standards, then I would have nothing against it. Here in Sweden if that ad was in lets say a newspaper, they would be accused for false advertising. Im not going that far, just saying its weird. Quote
Deverill Posted August 25, 2004 Posted August 25, 2004 Ah, I see what you mean. It is a poor choice of words for sure. You may want to go to Raul's page at borfast.com using IE just for fun. He does a much better job of explaining why IE is evil and why we should use something else. Quote
borfast Posted August 25, 2004 Posted August 25, 2004 But IE is also outdated. Just look at the bunch of features that have become standard in the two other major browsers (Opera and Mozilla/Firefox) which IE still lacks: integrated popup blocking (I wouldn't even call it a pop-up blocker, it just works the way you want it to instead of working the way spammers want to but that's a more technical matter), tabbed browsing, support for more W3 standards, no stupid vulnerabilities... Seriously, I think IE is really outdated mostly because of its lack of support for some CSS stuff. I can understand that they couldn't get it all done in time for launching IE6 with WinXP but there's no excuse for not updating IE with improved support for standards. Even worse is that MS doesn't seem to want to update IE until the release of its next version, which will only be available with the next version of Windows - meaning that if you want to use the next version of IE (not that I see any reason for that but there are strange folks in this world j/k ), you'll have to upgrade Windows too, which I'm sure will also mean upgrading your computer... I also heard that due to the massive migration away from IE of lately, MS has been thinking about releasing IE7 before the next version of Windows but the guys from Redmond haven't decided yet (at least not that I know of - I've been away for a few days). So IMHO, the big problem is not just the fact that IE's latest version is outdated. The big problem is what Microsof is planning for their browser. Quote
borfast Posted August 25, 2004 Posted August 25, 2004 OH, by the way, here's the link to the page about why not to use IE Jim mentioned. Any user who accesses my site using IE will be redirected to that page. You may also want to visit this other page I found out today: BrowseHappy.com Quote
DarqFlare Posted August 25, 2004 Posted August 25, 2004 Actually, IE gets updated in Service Pack 2 and has a popup blocker... lol. Took them long enough. Quote
TCH-Bruce Posted August 25, 2004 Posted August 25, 2004 Actually, IE gets updated in Service Pack 2 and has a popup blocker... lol. There are plenty of popup blockers you could use with IE so the update is useless imho. If they would work on rendering CSS correctly then we can talk. Quote
borfast Posted August 25, 2004 Posted August 25, 2004 I agree with Bruce (although I do think an integrated pop-up blocker is better than a stand-alone program but yeah, they're lagging behind everyone else on that matter). If they are really serious about updating IE, then they should update IE's standards support, especially regarding CSS and correct the nasty bugs it has (regarding CSS rendering, I mean). Quote
TCH-Bruce Posted August 25, 2004 Posted August 25, 2004 Well, if someone still insists on running IE after all the comments everywhere then may I suggest a little popup blocker called PopThis! You can get it from www.surfapps.com and it's free. Quote
Deverill Posted August 25, 2004 Posted August 25, 2004 IE and it's poor implementation of CSS rendering is one reason I hate it. As a web developer, though, I can't just ignore it even if I never use it for my own browsing needs. A perfect example: I just spent all my free time over the past 2 days (not that much time but enough!) trying to find out how to center a page using CSS. By the standards you just tell it to automatically adjust the left and right margins. Under IE there are suggestions to make the margin 50% and then back it up by half the size of your page or to set everything to center and then turn right around and uncenter the insides of the box. Stupid pet tricks to make it work as it should. And then they don't work with IE5.x! Too bad so many are still on IE that we developers can't just ignore it like we do NS 3 Quote
VLQRT Posted August 26, 2004 Posted August 26, 2004 But because the majority of the public (in europe anyway) uses IE, as a web developer you can't mis IE compatibility. I agree that Mozilla and Opera comply to W3c standards and IE kinda bends the rules, the fact that most people (in europe) use IE makes it the standard (in europe). So any big website had to make their site IE compatible even though it may disturb the way the site works with other browsers. It may be that you find that IE is 'bad', the majority rules, and in this case in favor of IE. I am not in anyway linked to the redmond monster by the way Quote
Deverill Posted August 28, 2004 Posted August 28, 2004 You are totally right, and it's not just Europe! Here in the States I'm seeing a huge percentage of visitors using IE and you are right, we can't afford to just ignore them. Quote
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