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matty

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Hello,

I have a question that might sound over-simplified, but I'd like to make sure of it before I continue on optimizing my site.

I'd like to know if a two word key phrase would count towards the total of words on a page as one word, or would the two words of the key phrase be counted seperately?

Here's a basic example. I have a web page with 100 words on it, and I'm optimizing the search term "used cars" for that page. The search term "used cars" shows up 10 times on the page out of a total of 100 words. Would that give me a density of 10%, or would the words "used" and "cars" be counted seperately? If so, I'd end up with a density of 20%, and I'm pretty darn sure that the robots from Google wouldn't like that too much. I'm pretty concerned about trying to optimize my pages without over-optimizing them. If one of you experienced seo'ers could set me straight on this, I'd greatly appreciate it.

 

Thanks in advance,

Matty

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Jill Whalen who is a SEO expert (public speaking engagements, big dollar clients, etc, not just self-proclaimed) says:

A good keyword density is using the keyword phrases as many times as possible, without it sounding dumb.

 

There's one tool at www.live-keyword-analysis.com/ that seems to treat them as if a phrase is 1 word, but I don't know the answer to you. I do know that many of the pros consider a magic keyword density to be chasing your tail and that we should just write copy for the visitors and talk about what the site's about and the rest will take care of itself. Of course there are things you can do for SEO but this is the single most solid advice I see repeated again and again.

 

Hope that helps!

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That's a pretty neat tool. Thanks STS!

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Hi,

Thanks for your responses to my question. I don't want to get my underwear all bunched up over the keyword density, but I guess I'm just a little paranoid with the way things are working after the whole Florida mess. I read that you could be penalized if the density was up over 10%.

As far as that quote from Jill Whallen goes, I've heard a few stories that explain how badly she can contradict herself when it comes to her seo advice. But thanks anyway.

 

Matty

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As far as that quote from Jill Whallen goes, I've heard a few stories that explain how badly she can contradict herself when it comes to her seo advice. But thanks anyway.

Of course you have. If anyone is successful then there will be someone with "stories". There are even folks saying that TCH is a bad place to host :)

 

Seriously, I put no faith in stories like that unless I see the contradictions myself and they are in context and make sense to me. I'll not defend Jill, it was just one quote I had handy and it's up to each of us to beleive whom we choose. All I know is that what she says is in line with lotsa other folks in that there is no magical percentage and that if you write copy that makes sense it will be the "right" density.

 

Best wishes on your optimizations!

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I'm cool with that Jim,

It's like the old saying goes, "opinions are like butt holes, all of us have one, and most of them stink".. I think that woman Jill got another seo expert a little ticked off, and that's why he was throwing shots at her.

I'm ok with writing content that has about a 10% density without it sounding redundant, so I'll just keep it at that. It seems like there's more important things to focus on now a days anyway. Inbound links, semantics etc..

Thanks for your input and take care.

 

Matty

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It seems like there's more important things to focus on now a days anyway. Inbound links, semantics etc..

By all means, and it changes on a weekly basis sometimes. Especially with Google. Keywords and, more importantly keyword phrases, are very important and always will be. The optimal density is anyone's guess. As the SEs improve their algorithms (I say with faith that they actually will) it will become more important to make pages for our visitors instead of the SEs because they'll one day be smart enough to detect most spam/scam techniques and will not reward them. (I hope!)

 

For what it's worth, I've heard several folks say Google is broken again as of a few days ago. I personally have tracked the rank position of my one client's fishing site and the position is bouncing up and down so much its graph almost made me seasick!

 

Take care!

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Hey,

I just read this quote from GoogleGuy and thought about this thread. For those who don't know, GoogleGuy is a frequent forum poster at WebmasterWorld.com and is an "inside source" at Google. Although, as he will tell you, he does not know everything - most of what he says is pretty interesting.

 

I hope this has something of value for someone.

 

"I advise people to spend less time on their toolbar PR, rankings, or a single keyword phrase and more time seeing how they do across several search engines, seeing if they can be relevant for diverse phrases, and on looking at their logs to figure out what keywords users are typing to really find the site."

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Hi Jim,

That's good of you to mention Webmasterworld.com. I'm there just about every day! I go by "Hungry4seo". I pretty much rely on the forum here at Total Choice and also their forum. I've been working my tail off to get my site overhauled, and at the same time, I've been trying to absorb as much as I can from the forums and other articles.

I thought of you lastnight because it looks like all of my PR mysteriously disappeared! I had a PR3 on my index (not so great), but now it's showing a grey bar. It made me think of your statement where you said that Google is broken. I hope that's the case. I have about 35 reciprocal links right now, and I doubt that they all fell off the earth all at once. I'm not sweating it though because I'll be republishing the site within another week or two.

The thing that gets me excited, is that I was able to get (some) traffic (about 1000 unique visitors per month), and I was able to make a few sales per month, and my site's pages were optimized TOTALLY wrong! I wasn't even dedicating search terms to specific pages! I have an SEO friend from the UK. that helped me pull my head out of my butt, and made me realize that the pages had to built around the search terms.

I'm real excited to see what the results will be.. Take care, thanks, Matty

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Hey Matty. There is a lot of information out there but we must be careful because there's as much bad as there is good. It is exciting to have the "Aha!" moment about something and then put it into play and see the results.

 

There are certainly no all-knowing folks around about this stuff because as soon as we learn something "they" change the algorithms or something else happens.

 

I have reworked my most important client's site to get rid of the tables and use CSS-P and I can already see a difference. It's too soon to tell the full impact, especially when they are changing things daily, but it's both fun and hard-work. If I had my way I'd be doing web designs full time but the Key West economy is a problem for now.

 

All the best on your site rework! I hope it works out well for you (unless you're competing with my clients! :dance:)

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There is a lot of information out there but we must be careful because there's as much bad as there is good.

 

Wise words from Jim :goof:

 

Webmaster world is a large forum, the largest SEO forum. That being said, it contains the largest amount of incorrect SEO information, truly be careful when gleaming suspected advice. The backroom (the paid portion of the forum) is definitely cleaner content.

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Hi Jim,

It's been about a week since I've got to the forum. I think I figured why my PR went to a grey box. The site got messed up pretty bad because my entire database was wiped out! The guy that does my programming is figuring that it happened at the server from an update or change that TC did, or someone hacked their way into my cpanel and did the damage! He was able to get it back up and running, but it still needs some repairs.

While I'm on the subject, do you know of an udate or change that they made here at Total Choice within the last two or three weeks? It's got me baffled... I don't think I pissed off someone enough to have them wiping out my database. I'll be finished with my overhaul within about a week, so I'll worry about repairing the database then.

I don't think I'm competing with your fishing friends in the Keys! I've fished Lake Okechobee for a straight week, and we had a blast! When I move back to the States with my wife and kids, We'll be settling in Maine, and I plan on getting re-aquainted with some large mouth bass when I get there!

Thanks again for your advice,

 

Matty

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Hey Matty,

Sorry about your database going belly up. I don't recall any updates but maybe someone else that reads this has a better memory than mine (which is not hard to do!) I hope it's not anything terribly difficult to recover from and you can get back in business quickly.

 

Fishing here is so much different than where I grew up in Kentucky. There a 10 pound fish is a big deal. Here it's called bait! :)

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