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I use ineedhits.com for my initial submit. Very low cost for great volume.


Then I just followup on occasion with those engines that I'm not placing well with.


Don't forget, there is a small submission routine in cPanel....FREE. I can't validate the results as a sole submission agent, but it's always worth a shot.


Also, list yourself in DMOZ. Many of the popular search engines get their base data from DMOZ.



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To get a high placement in Yahoo, requires you to pay them. Just make sure you submit your site in the correct category. They will list their paid sites first, then pull the rest of the search results from dmoz.org.


Lianna is correct about getting yourself listed in dmoz.org. Although it is not a guaranteed listing, most sites that are submitted there (and it is free) do get listed. Then Yahoo, Google, AOL, and others pull their free listings from them.


PPC (Pay per click) listings are a rip off - don't waste your money on them. The only people who profit from PPC is the web site (PPC) owners. For instance, if you wanted to pay Overture (who handles the Yahoo, Google, AOL, etc) for a paid listing for, lets say, a web hosting company, the current bid for top placement is $10.25 PER CLICK THROUGH! Yes, EVERY time someone clicks on YOUR link at the top of the search engines (listed as Sponsored Listings), YOU pay $10.25 (if that is your bid), whether or not you make a sale. Honestly, I can't see how any of them stay in business! You do get alot of hits, but if you don't have something that will sell the first time, you will, most likely, go broke on them. I have made it a habit not to even look at the sponsored sites, to help support the 'little guys". If you are really interested in a PPC listing, you can go to Overture and check them out.


Yahoo paid listing is not a guarantee that you get listed...the payment is for them 'to consider your web site within 7 days", and they will let you know if you get listed. I believe if you are denied, you are allowed one appeal.


I am not sure if you can even pay to get a personal web site listed, but I believe a paid "review" of your business web site on Yahoo is $299, and this is a reoccuring fee if you want to continue to be listed. Once approved on Yahoo, you normally get listed the next day.


I have had success with Yahoo, and if you have a profitable web site, I highly suggest the fee. The benefit of a paid listing with Yahoo, is it will be for a year, and you do not have to resubmit it to keep it listed.

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I agree with a lot of what Junior has to say.


To get a high placement in Yahoo, requires you to pay them.


This is true but I do not want you or others to misunderstand. To get into Yahoo's directory you have to pay them. High placement within that directory is determined by an analysis of the specific site. They do have a sponser listing which is determined by $ but the web listings are not (determined by $).


Search engine ranking is somewhat complex … well as complex as the search engine spider's algorithms. These algorithms are continuously being altered in an effort to obtain better results for users.


The analysis includes analyzing the meta tags of a site; the headers of a site; the site title; images of the site; compare keyword usage in the title, images, body text, first words, paragraphs, etc.; look at keyword density (the number of keywords compared to the total number of words); the number of links that point to your page; each link actually get a 'relevance score', the more relevant the better (i.e. a quantitative and qualitative link analysis); site depth and the relevance of those pages to each other; ... the list goes on and on.


Now some individuals try to 'trick' the spiders and do what is called spamming. This can include such devious tactics as placing keywords in a color that matches the background (e.g. non-visual to the human eye but the spiders read them), submitting your site multiple times at a high frequency to the search engine (e.g. use of submission software), multiple URL's pointing to the same pages, ... again the list goes on and on. Therefore, the algorithms have increased their complexity to scout out such deviant acts. Spamming can result in mere penalties in scoring (i.e. lower rankings) or all out removal from the search engine directory.


My recommendations (I do this for a living) is to first determine what actual search phrases will be used by potential viewers who will be looking for your site. Then, focusing on the keyword phrase(s), optimize your site. Optimize the site before you submit it. I have found that it is easier to obtain top rankings by submitting a site after optimization rather then 'climbing' from the bottom (or somewhere in the middle) and always submit by hand (i.e. no software or services). Actually, several of the search engines have set-up graphics that must be read visually in order to prevent non-human submission.


Concerning where one should submit, Google is king (by far!). As Junior stated above dmoz is important, but the reason it is important is that Google views (i.e. 'scores') a dmoz link with greater value then most. Keep in mind that Google also feeds many of the other portals and search engines. My research (multiple years and multiple sites) would suggest that Google produces over 86% of search engine traffic. Concern yourself with all the top search engines but your main focus should obviously be with Google. Your goal should be top five; many people say top 10. I personally like… well number one!


I too feel that PPC (pay per clicks) is a poor choice for both web site owners and search engines. The reasons being that the most relevant search rankings should not be based on the almighty dollar! In addition, if you can obtain top search rankings without paying per click (an obviously recurring expense) … why pay?



D. Scott

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This is really great information! Thank you for sharing it with us.


When conducting analysis, do you have a few good guidelines for us? You mention several measurable variables and I was just wondering, from a pro's point of view, what would be a good (like top 10) example? .... :D Not trying to put you out of business here, so if it's a trade secret, by all means protect it! ;)


More than anything, I think it would be helpful if we could see an example of a site that ranks high and know what they did to get it there.


Any insight you have is very appreciated!


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When conducting analysis, do you have a few good guidelines for us? You mention several measurable variables and I was just wondering .......


Guidelines … not sure what you mean here. Let me try … for a new site:


1. Analyze keywords thoroughly (competitor sites, wordtracker, etc.)


2. Optimize with Google in mind (I consider the others too!).


3. Develop a link strategy, which is a continuous project (developed by me, usually implemented by client).


4. Test and Track (log analysis [Analog and Report Magic]), repeat step 2 for fine-tuning.



Measurable variables … with regard to search engines, there are many stats available - wordtracker, onestat and a whole lot more. For instance present search engine search share is (please see side note):


Google 35.11%

Yahoo 32.79%

MSN 12.08%

AOL 9.01%

AltaVista 1.74%

Lycos 1.57%

Netscape 1.10%

Looksmart 0.59%

Alltheweb 0.21%

DMOZ 0.01%


They can give you statistics on the total number of searches handled by the search engine, total number of people who use the search engine, or total number of visitors that search engine send to sites, etc.


Are these numbers 'real' and what do they mean?


From an individual specific site's point of view, I do not think a whole lot.


It is something I watch but 'real' insight is gained from tracking 'real' numbers through individual, specific sites (i.e. logs).


The beauty of a well designed site (this includes optimization in my eyes) is that the consumer is coming to you, a specific consumer. It is funny how so many people still view number of hits or page views as a significantly meaningful entity. Real success of site design is the number of 'interested' viewers or what I refer to as 'relevant viewers'. Search engine derived traffic to a properly optimized web site gives you just that, a much targeted viewer.


I quantify this using 'relevant viewers' as calculated by the number of visitors who have used 'relevant' keyword(s) for that particular site. Then translate this into percent of actual sells per 'relevant visitor'. I also report the percent of 'relevant visitors' per total visitors. The higher the percent the better I feel I am doing my job.


A side note


Keep in mind that Google feeds AOL, Teoma, Netscape, Iwon, AskJeeves and Yahoo. Overture feeds Go, Altavista, Yahoo, MSN, AllTheWeb, Lycos, Excite, IWon. Inktomi feeds Hotbot, LookSmart, Overture, Exicte. Yahoo recently bought Inktomi. DMOZ feeds Lycos, Google, AllTheWeb and Hotbot. LookSmart feeds Altavista and MSN. Fast feeds AllTheWeb and Lycos.


Another side note


A lot of the research being conducted on spider algorithms is actually still done at Stanford (remember Google's lineage?). One can dig for these publications and get insight into what is contained in the alogs of today and, more importantly, … what is coming tomorrow.



Not sure that this is what you were after, but I hope it helps.


Good Night.


D. Scott

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Interesting reading. I especially loved the part about Google being king. I have a Math Blog that I use as a part of my teaching high school math and the highlight for me this last month is that it shows up #1 on a google search for "Math Blog" and in the top five or so for "algebra practice" and similar searches. One of the more popular parts of the site is an interactive algebra section that I got from a guy named Robert Bunge. If you do a google search for "Robert Bunge" my site pops up #1 as well (his school site is a few pages on down.)


Besides the chance to brag :D it also shows that sometimes just good luck (and having a fairly narrow focus) helps as well. I've had the site up for about a year and a half and never submitted it to any search engine. Now that it is in the engines I have folks from all over visit the site although I originally set it up just to help my students.

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