RJSkon Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Looking for some ideas. Does anyone have any ideas how I make a Flash Intro Page more favorable to search engines, without adding a lot of text to the page. I will eventually add "summary" and "Keywords" to the Page Properties. Of course I could add a lot of text to the page and than have it blend into the background, but they say that search engines can detect that and ignore your page. It seems as if the search engines are scanning the text on the index.htm page and don't bother with Keywords any more. The Intro Page will be the index.htm file and than redirect to the home.htm file which will be the start of the actual site. Here is the Intro Page, http://www.rjskon.com/abms/ Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TCH-Dick Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 I don't know how well this will work. I did a little research and some people are making their index.html page with plain old HTML that reflects the contents of their flash intro. Then this page is setup to redirect to the flash intro. In theory the index.html will be indexed but most visitors will see the flash intro only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJSkon Posted November 6, 2003 Author Share Posted November 6, 2003 Thanks, you have given me an idea. I can set up a regular index.html page with a little pre-introduction text, have that page redirect quickly to an index.htm page, which will be the Flash Intro page and than the visitor can enter the site from there. I can make the pre-introduction HTML page similar to the Flash Intro page in background color, place an animated .gif, saying "Loading Intro Page" and it may look like part of the Flash intro page. It's worth a try. Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEO Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Several possible solutions: 1. Hidden text (without being considered spam) ><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Testing DIV tag</TITLE> <STYLE TYPE="text/css"> <!-- P { FONT-SIZE: 12px; COLOR: #666; LINE-HEIGHT: 17px; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana, Geneva, Arial, sans-serif } h1.hide { text-indent: -100em; } P.hide { text-indent: -500em; } --> </STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY> <!-- Hide this header --> <H1 class="hide">Content to be indexed</H1> <!-- Hide this sub-title --> <P class="hide"><b>Nice Title Here</b></P> <!-- Hide this text --> <P class="hide">This would be the body of your text. I would suggest using an outline form with keywords in header tags, in the beginning of sentences and within sentences. </P> <!-- Main content embeded inside a Flash movie --> <DIV style="POSITION: absolute; LEFT: 0px; TOP: 0px;"> <TABLE BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="0" WIDTH="100%"> <TR> <TD ALIGN="center"> <OBJECT … this would be your flash> </OBJECT> </TD> </TR> </TABLE> </DIV> </BODY> </HTML> 2. Just add 'real' text below the flash... no one will ever know it is there but the search engines will 'read' it. 3. Use a no-flash detection script, then provide an alternative HTML version. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJSkon Posted November 6, 2003 Author Share Posted November 6, 2003 Thanks Scott That "Hidden Text" is amazing, it really works and it also works in the old Netscape 4.7 browser, I always test stuff there and if it works in 4.7, it will work anywhere. That's the way to go and I'll place some text below the Flash, saying "If your Browser Doesn't Support Flash, Click Here" Thanks again. Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surefire Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 This is a great trick that I've known about for some time but I've never used because of this from Google's page for Webmasters Quality Guidelines - Specific recommendations: * Avoid hidden text or hidden links. Dsdemmin knows his stuff so listen to what he has to say... I've just always sided on the conservative side since I'd hate to be banned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEO Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Along the same css lines, I like how M3avrik did it. It is even 'cleaner'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJSkon Posted November 6, 2003 Author Share Posted November 6, 2003 Scott I looked at, M3avrik's site and it looks great, the text is hidden nicely, the only thing is, I can't figure how he did it, using hidden frames. I copied part of M3avrik's code into ViaPage (HTML Editor) and in preview mode, the text appeared on the page. I'll have to stay with it and see if I can figure it out. Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Richard, M3avrik did it by using div tag and under css, he used the "display:none" to hide the text. >#header, #image, #navVert, #navHoriz, form { display:none; } Dennis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJSkon Posted November 6, 2003 Author Share Posted November 6, 2003 Thanks Dennis Got it, the "style.css" and the "print.css" stylesheets are the key to success. Now I just have to get it to work with my Flash Intro page. Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curtis Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 Thanks Scott for the link to the M3avrik thread. I looked for that thread several times, just couldn't remember where it was. I wanted to try that css approach to hidden text but didn't have time when it was posted. curtis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEO Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 Curtis: I looked for that thread several times, just couldn't remember where it was. I too remembered that thread when it was first posted, it took me forever to remember 'who' and 'where' it was. I did several searches and just could not come up with it Then I remembered it had to be one in regard to my 'SEO thoughts', asking for 'real' text on his home page. So, I went through every single thread until I finally found it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJSkon Posted November 7, 2003 Author Share Posted November 7, 2003 Scott That CSS stylesheet works great, I still have a little tweaking to do on the style.css file, but my Flash Intro Page, is coming along, http://rjskon.com/abms/ It's amazing how you can see the hidden text by using the "Print Preview" function of the browser. It looks great in IE 6 and in Netscape 6 & 7.1, but it has a little problem in Netscape 4.7 Thanks again Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJSkon Posted November 7, 2003 Author Share Posted November 7, 2003 Curtis I placed a search before using the words "Hidden Frames" there was some information that came up, where Dreamweaver can create hidden frame automatically. Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curtis Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 Scott So, I went through every single thread until I finally found it This is a perfect example of the lengths TCH will go to when someone needs help. So incase I haven't said it before Thanks to everyone,staff and members alike, that contributes to this board. Richard I will look into that DW feature. Free time to play around with anything has been hard to come by for the last few months. Thanks for the info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEO Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 RJSkon: Glad we could be of some help This is how your page looks to spiders (the '*' denote links): >FRAME: TRLX_Top FRAME: TRLX_Left FRAME: TRLX_Middle FRAME: TRLX_Bottom [EMBED] * Home Page * About Us * Products/Services * More Information * Contact Us Atlantic Boiler And Mechanical Services Atlantic Boiler And Mechanical Services offers a wide range of services for boilers and mechanical work, some of the sevices are, Emergency Maintenance, New Installations, Tube Replacements, Code Welding, Planned Maintenance, Pipe Fabrication, Specialty Rigging and P3 Scheduling contact us. Have a great day! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surefire Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 Isn't anyone concerned about getting banned for this? I would think that if a competitor reported your site and showed Google your css file, you'd be screwed. Don't pass go, don't collect $200. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEO Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 Jack: Your concern is good Thumbs Up You have read enough of my posts to no that I am very conscientious with regard to spam. I do not have a definite answer with regard to diplay:none Jury is still out. Thoughts: My gut says this is not spam, it could be used to spam but using in this instance it is not spam... and I often go on my gut. I am not a big CSS guy, so I do not use this technique (I guess I should have said that up front). Apparently though there are many scripts that use diplay:none (e.g. menu). Therefore, it would be difficult, or rather foolish, for anyone to write a filter for all 'diplay:none' flags. However, I could easily see how this could be misused and thus filters will be developed for their misuse (same for filtering spamming of a title tag). Having said all of that, again I repeat... I am not a big CSS guy. The method I would use is the adding of real body text way below the flash (or image in some cases) that will be 'read', and is legitimate but most people will never know it is even there (why scroll way down there?). As you know, I have recommended this technique to many within the family here. I actually initially recommended in the beginning of this thread too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJSkon Posted November 7, 2003 Author Share Posted November 7, 2003 Scott There are a zillion Flash web sites and Flash Intro pages out there, I'll have to start looking around and see how they are getting indexed. I went to the Google Message Center and started to read some of the posts about "Flash and Hidden Text and everyone there has a different idea. It seems like the Head Honcho at Google's Message Center dislikes Flash, that didn't go over too big there. I can include "Keywords" using Flash, but it seems like text on the page is the best way to go for Google to index your site, for some reason. Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEO Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 RJSkon: "Flash and Hidden Text" and everyone there has a different ideaTrue (i.e. the verdict is still out). It seems like the Head Honcho at Google's Message Center dislikes Flash He is not the only one But, it is getting more and more popular so they will have to deal with it sooner or later (and they are smart, so they will). ... but it seems like text on the page is the best way to go for Google to index your site. In the short term (and maybe longer), the easiest and best way would be to simple add text way below the flash. You know what I mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJSkon Posted November 8, 2003 Author Share Posted November 8, 2003 Scott I have a question. I change the Flash Intro page, I added text to the bottom of the page, but what I did is change the color of the vertical scroll bar to match the background color of the page, the scroll bar is still there, if you hover over it you can scroll the page. Now, is this considered by Google as "Hidden Text" ? http://rjskon.com/abms/ That of course this only works in Internet Explorer, but it does look like a Flash Intro page. Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEO Posted November 8, 2003 Share Posted November 8, 2003 I know for a fact that there are filters whose sole purpose is to check for text that has a color attribute that matches (or is very similar to) the background color. Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TCH-Dick Posted November 8, 2003 Share Posted November 8, 2003 His text isnt the same color as the background, he just hid the scrollbar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEO Posted November 8, 2003 Share Posted November 8, 2003 Thanks Mike... did not look close enough. Now, is this considered by Google as "Hidden Text" ? Well yes it is 'hidden' but if it will get you into trouble is not known yet... that is the part of 'jury is still out'. I still do not think of this as being spam, if anyone were to truly look at what you were doing it would be obvious. The problem is will any new or future filters identify as such... that I can not answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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