Bob Crabb Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 phpBB.com announced today that 2.0.xx will be retired at the beginning of 2009. http://www.phpbb.com/community/viewtopic.p...14&t=900655 Upgrading to version 3 is going to be a pain in the rear for many of us, but at least we're getting a few months of notice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTD Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 Well poo I hope version2 stays halfway secure and no one finds any new bugs with it. I really do not like version3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeren Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 Why don't you both like version 3? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Crabb Posted April 19, 2008 Author Share Posted April 19, 2008 Why don't you both like version 3? Jeren, I really like version 3. I just said that upgrading is going to be a pain in the rear. I own 2 boards, and maintain 3 others. The reason why I haven't upgraded any of them yet is because these boards are all heavily modified, and I do not want to lose the functionality provided by those mods. So, I'm waiting for some of the mods that I need to move further along in development before putting them into a production environment. I am at the point where I can probably upgrade one of them very soon, but I also need to re-do the entire site, and I haven't quite decided how I want to go about the re-design. I have been testing phpBB3 since its first Beta release, and I have also been testing many of the mods since their early days of development. I think that when I do finally upgrade, the users are all going to like the additional functionality of the new system, or at least the better like it after all the work I'm going to put into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deny Posted April 20, 2008 Share Posted April 20, 2008 Jeren, I really like version 3. I just said that upgrading is going to be a pain in the rear. I own 2 boards, and maintain 3 others. The reason why I haven't upgraded any of them yet is because these boards are all heavily modified, and I do not want to lose the functionality provided by those mods. So, I'm waiting for some of the mods that I need to move further along in development before putting them into a production environment. I am at the point where I can probably upgrade one of them very soon, but I also need to re-do the entire site, and I haven't quite decided how I want to go about the re-design. I have been testing phpBB3 since its first Beta release, and I have also been testing many of the mods since their early days of development. I think that when I do finally upgrade, the users are all going to like the additional functionality of the new system, or at least the better like it after all the work I'm going to put into it. That;s big problem of phpBB3.x. Because phpBB3.x has been coded differently all old mods will be lose including style of board. I maintain also 2-3 boards and there are some mod that are really vital for board (like group mods paypal). It is not problem that there is new board and that support for old stop it but it is problem that because of different coding not any old mod is valid on new board and it is big min. for phpBB team. I'm afraid that over 4-5 years when new phpBB4.x come out same thing will happen with phpBB3.x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TCH-Bruce Posted April 20, 2008 Share Posted April 20, 2008 I'm afraid that over 4-5 years when new phpBB4.x come out same thing will happen with phpBB3.x Doesn't progress suck? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deny Posted April 20, 2008 Share Posted April 20, 2008 (edited) Doesn't progress suck? I like your irony The problem is with incompatibility where we can not integrate mods from phpBB2.x. And it have nothing to do with progress. Imagine that with every new version of Operational system all computer programers must rewrite their program to be compatible with new version? I'm not sure of my point was clear to you but if with every major upgrade you can import only stuff from MySql then it is still thumb down Edited April 20, 2008 by Deny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TCH-Bruce Posted April 20, 2008 Share Posted April 20, 2008 It's the same with all programming. It evolves. Whether or not the mods get enhanced is up to the developer of the mod. There's where the problem lies. Being a programmer, I know how difficult it is to keep modifying things to stay current. If you can't live without a modification you installed and the developer doesn't see fit to update it to work with newer versions you are stuck with what you have. I try not to install too many modifications to the core packages I install. For the sake of being able to migrate to newer versions when they come out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TCH-Zac Posted April 20, 2008 Share Posted April 20, 2008 It like it was with Invision Power Board. When they went from 2.1 to 2.2 the coding within the program was different. Which meant most skins/modules/edits that you made were no longer working. This meant having to re-write certain module, re-do skins and everything associated if you wanted to change to the new version. The good thing is the coding was very similar when they went from 2.2 to 2.3 so not many issues there. Most forum software coding is changed a bit during each version, this is soemthing that I have noticed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deny Posted April 20, 2008 Share Posted April 20, 2008 It's the same with all programming. It evolves. Whether or not the mods get enhanced is up to the developer of the mod. There's where the problem lies. Being a programmer, I know how difficult it is to keep modifying things to stay current. I think that they need to think more about their customers and give ability to take over current mods or to give you option to manually update it. Just start to think what will happen if B.Gates decide to make completely new system over 3-4 years where programers of software, drivers etc.. need to write everything from scratch of make big modification to their product. With explanation that it evolves!? I think that it should be end of MIcrosoft. If you can't live without a modification you installed and the developer doesn't see fit to update it to work with newer versions you are stuck with what you have. I try not to install too many modifications to the core packages I install. For the sake of being able to migrate to newer versions when they come out. I will stick with old version so far as it is possible and chose my next board wisely to prevent same thing happen again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Crabb Posted April 20, 2008 Author Share Posted April 20, 2008 I have no complaints against the phpBB group. Actually I think that it is a great open source project, and I'm glad that such a well supported, sophisiticated forum system is available to us all free of charge. As long as Olympus has been a topic of discussion on the phpBB main forum and on their Area 51 forum, we've known for a long time that the basic script structure, database, and template system was to be completely different with the new release. This has forced me to think through any mods that I have done on my phpBB2 boards, and realize that eventually, I will either have to find a substitute for those mods that someone else has written, or buckle down and write something myself to do the job. While all that might be a pain, and while I wish that the group would support the development of security patches for version 2 for an additional year or so, I can't complain. phpBB and all the mods downloadable from their site are free of charge. That makes asking for a refund a no-brainer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TCH-Bruce Posted April 20, 2008 Share Posted April 20, 2008 I think that they need to think more about their customers and give ability to take over current mods or to give you option to manually update it. It's free software since it's open source. I'm sure things were changed for a reason not just because they wanted to change them. Take for example that the version of PHP that they run on has undergone several revisions since they first released. Just start to think what will happen if B.Gates decide to make completely new system over 3-4 years where programers of software, drivers etc.. need to write everything from scratch of make big modification to their product. With explanation that it evolves!?I think that it should be end of MIcrosoft. Since I am a developer for an accounting software package there are things that we can't do without writing conversion programs for our current customer base. Sure we can enhance the product and new customers would never be the wiser but keeping the existing customer base happy is a priority if we wish to remain in business. We do not sell source code or give the source code away this way we have control over what gets added and removed. And when we add something that requires a conversion we write that too. I will stick with old version so far as it is possible and chose my next board wisely to prevent same thing happen again. I understand where you are coming from but eventually you are going to have to bite the bullet and upgrade. As for choosing your next board wisely, there will always be changes. Just something you need to be aware of when you start modifying it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deny Posted April 20, 2008 Share Posted April 20, 2008 (edited) It's free software since it's open source. I'm sure things were changed for a reason not just because they wanted to change them. Take for example that the version of PHP that they run on has undergone several revisions since they first released. Since I am a developer for an accounting software package there are things that we can't do without writing conversion programs for our current customer base. Sure we can enhance the product and new customers would never be the wiser but keeping the existing customer base happy is a priority if we wish to remain in business. We do not sell source code or give the source code away this way we have control over what gets added and removed. And when we add something that requires a conversion we write that too. I understand where you are coming from but eventually you are going to have to bite the bullet and upgrade. As for choosing your next board wisely, there will always be changes. Just something you need to be aware of when you start modifying it. Probably best explaining of the new situation and everything what happened before and after decision of phpBB team come from opinion of one of the oldest and probably best php coders which mods official are never verified from phpBB team - Ptirhiik (creator of category hierarchy and their integrating into phpBB): Who wants to convert ? phpBB 3 is a plenty different product from phpBB 2, and doesn't answer the same expections that directed users to phpBB (for some more, for many at this time less, especially regarding available styles). Less than one year for security patch is really too short for such a number of existing boards, and most boards won't upgrade to the first version of a new product: phpBB 2 has begun to be stable at 2.0.3 version, and is fairly stable since only 2.0.7 (and that's normal). Do you really think phpBB 3 will do better ? I don't think so, really, or that would be the ever first large public product succeeding in this. But the real problems behind all of this are: - who will trust the phpBB team in the future, knowing they announce they will keep security fixes even on old previous version (that is what they have claimed since the release of phpBB 3, and before), and finally drop it in such a short time line ? I won't for sure. - how will board owners be informed of security reports about phpBB 2 ? This means: "go with the new product (it is not only a new version), or be hacked without any warnings", and that is a real concern. You know, as a mod and full product designer, though I drop support on old jobs, I'm still watching for new security issues that may pop onto my old to very-old (6 years...) productions. I would be very uncomfortable with proceeding differently, and I have not the same spread of my products than phpBB has... And I'm not a perfect guy on this, especially on phpBB mods. The fact is: phpBB group has lost my trust in their words with this last move. I often have disagreed with their choices (especially this past year), but I kept them my trust because they showed by the past their dedication to users. With this *erm* funny pretext - what the hell they had in mind with choosing this excuse though they have probably plenty of solid arguments that can be easely understood by everyone ?, they have broken something that I don't think it can be repaired, at least for me. Do I care ? Yes, because I have always be an active supporter of phpBB, and I feel at least very deceived here. Do I care for my boards ? No, I already have superseded phpBB to my own devs. Do I care for my current mods ? No, I will just break quicker than planed from phpBB and go my own way, for the benefits of my users and people who are trusting me. From http://www.phpbbhacks.com/forums/phpbb-2-s...09-vt72608.html With main point: who will trust the phpBB team in the future, knowing they announce they will keep security fixes even on old previous version (that is what they have claimed since the release of phpBB 3, and before), and finally drop it in such a short time line ? I won't for sure. Edited April 20, 2008 by Deny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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