RCF Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 With FP being phased out by MS, TCH says that continued extension support for their Unix/linux will cease at some point. If I wish to keep using FP, does it make sense to switch to a Windows based Web Host, or will they have the same problem in the future? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayson Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 I may get a private message for this question, but why do people use FP, is it that good? I have tried it and found that it was way to complex, all the stuff you need to do to create and publish a web page. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TCH-Carl Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 It is not TCH that is ceasing support for FP. MS itself is phasing out the software. Front Page extensions are provided and is a part of CPanel, we do not have direct control over what they provide as part of the package. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TCH-Andy Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 Welcome to the forums RCF As Carl says, it's MS that is no longer supporting it - so they will no longer provide update for extensions to windows or linux - they will both fail at some point in the future, I just can't predict when. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TCH-Thomas Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 Welcome to the forum, RCF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TCH-Bruce Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 Welcome to the forums RCF Maybe it's time to learn something else other than FrontPage. Although the extensions may be phased out you can still use FTP to publish anything you create with FP. I would take a look at NVU as a good replacement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TCH-Don Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 Welcome to the forums RCF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbonize Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 Frontpage is being replaced with Expressions which is a more robust editor along with a couple of other programs like image editor. Nvu is good although there is a fork to it called KompoZer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmanmcp Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 why do people use FP, is it that good? I have tried it and found that it was way to complex, all the stuff you need to do to create and publish a web page. People tend to use whatever is handy. FP was pre-loaded on a lot of PC's purchased and people use it because its there. For most people it is not that complex, they could easily use the templates and quickly publish a simple web page, and thats all they wanted. Once you got into the multiple pages and more complex designs is where you probably got in over your head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoxersRule Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 I am SO confused.... not surprising though! I was one that had FP pre-loaded and I did manage to stumble my way through it and published my website although I didn't use any of their templates. Now that support for it will not be maintained and , does that mean that pages published via FP will not be able to be seen at some point in the future? I never did figure out "extentions" so I'm not sure if I have them or not. I want to spiff up my site anyway which is why I'm so interested in TCH's website builder software that was mentioned as an improvement. I did download NVU but haven't had time to look at it... as if I would know what I'm looking at....... It's not "if" but "when" I get started with NVU and have questions can someone here provide a bit of guidance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TCH-Bruce Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 If you are publishing your web pages using FrontPage an not using FTP you are using the extensions. That is what allows your pages to be uploaded. I learned HTML first then played with FrontPage. Yes, it is nice for managing a site but there is just so much junk output with it I quit using it. I don't use NVU either even though I recommend it to new users. I have played with it. I would recommend instead of waiting for TCH to offer a website builder to take some time and learn HTML and CSS and build your own template. Yes, generic templates can be used to start a site but you really don't want it looking like every other site out there do you? There are plenty of tutorials on the subject on various web sites. There are plenty of good books to read. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TCH-Don Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 There are some good help sites for NVU Nvu User Guide Learn How To Build Your Web Site Using Nvu: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayson Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 I never knew what HTML/CSS/DHTML/PHP was 12 years ago. A friend and me wanted to create a web page, ( it was all the rave back in '95) so we got books from the library and we followed examples in the books, front page was not preinstalled on my computer, it was a gateway computer with windoze 95 and word 97 installed, it was I believe a 333DX66 processor with a 1200 baud modem and only 520megs of drive space ( I now have a 2.5 gig processor, windoze XP, MS office 2007, 2 drives, one is 40 gigs, the other is aa 40 gig partitioned 6 times) I have tried FP, coffeecup, Webwriter, and cutehtml, some are good, others are not what I like, I been using cutehtml for about 4 years and enjoy that. If something elso comes out that is better I will try that. as they say " to each his own" use what you feel comfortable with. Jayson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deverill Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 Jayson, (and others) FP has changed about as much as your computer has over the years. It used to be the worst piece of junk in the world for putting garbage in your pages... not so much today. There is still a little bloat but it's a respectable product that, like any, if you take the time to learn its quirks you can get around them with little effort. You can tell FP to upload via FTP, which is what I do, and it works just fine for what I do - and I do make money at this so it's not like my sites are trivial. Truly, to each his own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TCH-Bruce Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 There is still a little bloat but it's a respectable product that, like any, if you take the time to learn its quirks you can get around them with little effort. While I agree FP has gotten better over the years there is a flaw in your statement. Most people that are going to use FP or their latest version are newbies and aren't going to know or care about learning the quirks let alone HTML in general. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deverill Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 It's not a flaw in my statement. My statement that you can get around any quirks with a little effort is not based on whether folks will do that. FrontPage has a reputation of being for the "newbies who don't know or care about learning the quiks", which I find prejudiced (from pre-judge) and unfair. My neighbors thought I had no money because I didn't deck out under my stilt-house and even said something to the effect, but when the hurricanes come he is asking me to park under my house because he can't get into his. Just because someone uses FP doesn't mean they are a noob and can't/haven't learned HTML. Although it is often true, to assume so is unfair. Many sophisticated users choose to use FrontPage just like a NASCAR driver chooses to drive a pickup truck home after the race. Maybe he needs to haul dirt on his property and he would look pretty stupid shoveling dirt into a big muscle car. Any WYSIWYG (or text for that matter) editor can create absolute garbage in the hands of a completely unexperienced user. In fact, you'd be surprised how many spreadsheets where I work have @SUM(B3/A2) which is due to a spreadsheet novice using the summation button to get the little boxes they can move around... WYSIWYG spreadsheet formulas if you will. In my opinion, for whatever it's worth, it's fine to express opinions about FP and it's fine to offer alternatives, but to look down one's nose at a person who chooses to use one tool over another, regardless of how the end product turns out, is just plain not nice and discourages some folks from using the only tool they may ever desire to use. It's great for those of us who like that kind of thing or who have forced ourselves to learn HTML, but to tell the person that just wants to put up pictures of the grandkids for their parents to see they should learn HTML is like saying you should learn fluent Spanish to order a Nachos Bellgrande at Taco Bell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlineAutorama Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 I love FrontPage, Thats what I learned on but i know nothing about php pages, databases or anything in the advanced area. I dont know why they can't create a program that will create the database for you. Right now i'm wanting to create a Price Comparison website and i want to be able to have a database where it'll keep track of the products and all i would have to do is enter in who sells that same product and at what price and then have it all sorted out by the database but i have no idea how to do this. I've read hundreds of tutorials over the last 10+ years and I still can't do it for the life of me. I try to ask people for help and get nadda. I'd like to learn Dreamweaver but when Dreamweaver Opens up I have no idea what i'm looking at and cannot create a website worth a crap with it. So i end up going back to what i know and thats FP. I wish there was a Step by Step way of creating a Database. Oh Well. My $0.02 Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbonize Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 Wow totally off topic there. Anyway instead of PHP have a look at ASP (if TC supports it) since I believe that can do most of the work for you. Or look into the Adobe suite (Dreamweaver and Coldfusion). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TCH-Bruce Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 TCH does not offer ASP as far as I know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlineAutorama Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 I wonder what if any New Features come with the New version of FrontPage. Or Expressions or something... Yeah TCH doesnt support ASP. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GvilleRick Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 You can download a copy of Expression Web to test for 60 days. I have been using it some the past couple of weeks and am much more impressed with it than I was with FP. It does seem to support web standards much better and the code created by the WYSIWYG editor is not as messy as FP. Changing styles in the document, for example, will make the changes in the style sheet rather than just put them in the html file. As for your statement "I try to ask people for help and get nadda.", what you are wanting to do is pretty involved. You could contract someone from one of the "rent a coder" type sites if you can't find a script that does what you need at hotscripts.com, etc. It's not the type of question where someone can say first do this, then do that, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashram Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 And then there is Adobe Dreamweaver as well. Dreamweaver is the most used application by web developers world wide, as it has everything needed to build websites built in to it's interface. It also allows for posting up to websites pretty seamlessly as well through put and get clicking. I have tried just about all the bigger web page design programs over the years and yes Frontpage was a dog and still is with all it's belated coding when you view the webpage source, something that Microsoft will always do with any and all their coding. NVU is very good and is totally free as well, I have it installed and it is great to get info to display correctly. Don't forget you might need to look at php files sometime in your development and there are many php coding software free out there as well. Like PSPad Editor, love they way it just loads pages and displays them with no problems, also how it colour codes the lines as well. Remember each to their own, we all have our own likes and dislikes with software. And I have been using just about all general day to day Microsoft Software since their conception so have seen that good and bad with their software. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deverill Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 Lots of people say what Peter did in the last post - "Frontpage was a dog and still is with all it's belated coding" - (I assume he means bloated coding). Anyway, I recreated the front page of a site I have using FrontPage 2003 at www.jimscomputing.com/test.htm and I fail to see where all the gosh-aweful bloating is everyone gripes about. Yes, there is a <p> </p> in there and some "align=left"'s which are the default and could be omitted... but it's really not all that bad. By the way, I did no code-tweaking - everything was done in the wysiwyg editor. If someone doesn't like FP then that is certainly their perogative. I hold no ill will, or malice towards them... just don't blame things that have been mostly fixed and would be 100% fixed were it not for the WYSIWYG element. For example, one that was added by FP was to make me a place to click in my table. Were it not for that I would have 2 lines together (empty column) and no way to insert between them. For something that is designed for a non-coder to create web pages I think it did a pretty good job. How many extra pixels does Gimp put in a photo we touch up that a pixel-twister would eliminate? Do we realize how much extra wire there is in our cars because we want to have buttons for the radio on the stering wheel or remote control mirrors? A real driver doesn't use that stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashram Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 Fair point Deverill, and yes I did mean bloated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 I thought MS Office SharePoint Designer 2007 was the FrontPage followup. Perhaps there's more than one directin to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TCH-Bruce Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 Only if you are a SharePoint user. After nine years of being an award-winning Web authoring tool, FrontPage will be discontinued in late 2006. We will continue to serve the diverse needs of our existing FrontPage customers with the introduction of two brand-new application building and Web authoring tools using the latest technologies: Office SharePoint Designer 2007 for the enterprise information workers and Expression Web for the professional Web designer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heyguy Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 Only if you are a SharePoint user. Which, if you're hosted here, you are probably not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbonize Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 Personally I'd say either get hold of Dreamweaver or try the free alternatives such as Nvu or KompoZer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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