Vista?

[mike]

Hey TCHers,

 

What are the recent pros and cons to VISTA?

 

Has anyone tried it out yet?

[Madmanmcp]

Hi Mike, I tested it out during the public Beta. I used it for about a month and then threw it away, I'll avoid it until I am forced to use it when I purchase a new computer. Hopefully by then they will have fixed or changed some of the things I had problems with.

 

Lets see, the new security feature I hated the most, everytime I wanted to do something it wanted confirmation, the nag screens were endless. I had trouble getting things to work, drivers were not available and I couldn't just throw the stuff away and get new equipment. I had a problem with my PC fan, with Vista loaded it continually ran the fan and I couldn't get it to stop. I would startup XP and the fan was quiet, ran once in a while, not non-stop like Vista, annoying. Generally, things ran slower, not that you would notice over a length of time but it was noticable.

 

The Pro's...ummm, I can't think of any. This is the first time I will not go out and buy the latest Windows version and run it on my system so I can learn it and help others. I'm sticking with XP for the time being.

[JTD]

I received a free upgrade to vista. But I will probably not use it. There are just to many things that will not work. My scanner being one of them. HP is not going to update the drivers for my style of scanner. And I refuse to go buy another one. Plus numerous other things that might or might not work. Besides that I like XP.

[MikeJ]

I have it running on one of my laptops (this one that I use for work).

 

Pro's... it's got a pretty new interface. Beyond that, honestly, I haven't seen significant improvement over XP, and as people above said, drivers are still coming if you don't have the most common devices and current devices.

 

My Vista shipped with my Dell Latitude 620 laptop. So far it crashes when I suspend if I forget to disconnect the verizon wireless connection, and their beta dreamscene software has a habit of crashing the shell (but in their defense it is still beta). I had to uninstall the JRE that came with the OEM Vista, and install directly from Sun, to get the JRE to work with Firefox.

 

I run Parallels on it as well, and so far that has worked great to run other OS's at the same time.

 

Overall, it's not too bad, but not the significant improvement yet over XP that I'd hope to see, and as with a new release of anything it'll take awhile before all the support is there. There is a lot of the "nag" screens as the system repeatedly asks for permission to run programs in administrator mode that you'll have to get used to, but overall I think it's a step in the right direction (Microsoft's attempt at a "sudo" for Windows).

[nortk]

Students and faculty in our department can get the business edition free. So I installed the upgrade. It took a few hours, and then gave me an error message that it couldn't complete the installation. An hour or so later, it had rolled back to XP Pro. After a little research, I suspected that the problem was caused by having Microsoft's IIS web server running. So, I uninstalled it, and went through the 4-hour process again. Success.

 

But I did not like what I perceived as a slower running system, and all the new popups, and the fact that no proper driver existed for my HP printer (and that HP didn't seem to be racing to update it). So, I rolled it back, never getting a real chance to appreciate any "pros" that might have been. My system is about 18 months old, with 1GB RAM. I may upgrade to 2GB and see if there's a difference.

[jayson]

I am with JTD, I started with win 3.1 gor a new computer that came with win 95, got the free upgrade to win 98 then went to win 98se, then win xp ( I got both home and profession) I think I am done upgrading. till I by a computer that has Vista on it. The cost is just not in my budget

[TCH-Thomas]

We have been running it on a new computer here at home for about a month.

 

Vista was installed by the people who made the computer, so I can´t say how the installation is, but our Vista Home Premium have been running well.

 

Of course there have been some searching for updated drivers on the net for the printer and other things, but we have found them.

 

Apart from that I can not say I have found any cons yet. On the other hand, I can not say I have found any major improvements that would make me go out and buy a upgrade for our other computer.

Edited March 23, 2007 by TCH-Thomas

[Madmanmcp]

There is a lot of the "nag" screens as the system repeatedly asks for permission to run programs in administrator mode that you'll have to get used to, but overall I think it's a step in the right direction (Microsoft's attempt at a "sudo" for Windows).

 

My first impression of these was 'oh great', people will get into the automatic habit of clicking thru this box and not even reading or worrying about what it is warning you about. Then when the real thing its warning you about comes in you don't even see it coming ... the 'cry wolf' gotcha.

 

I'm not sure what the correct solution would be but I didn't like it. And turning it off was not a good idea for the majority either.

[mike]

Thanks everyone for the comments.

I tend to take Madman's word as gospel and that's how I will play it.

 

Thanks again everyone.

[stevevan]

My first impression of these was 'oh great', people will get into the automatic habit of clicking thru this box and not even reading or worrying about what it is warning you about. Then when the real thing its warning you about comes in you don't even see it coming ... the 'cry wolf' gotcha.

 

Unless something in the security features prevents this, it sounds like an easy way to get spybots and/or virii onto a system. While I haven't played with Vista at all, I'm with the rest of you...I won't go out of my way to get it. Of course, learning Linux is a good enough challenge for me right now!

[carbonize]

Vista really comes into it's own on 64 bit machines. The 64 bit version of Vista requires that all drivers must be signed (like secure websites have certificates). This stops things like root kits being possible. A root kit is where a program is running on your machine but is hidden from Windows. It also has other security in place which stopped programs monitoring net traffic at the driver level and this is what companies like Symantec were complaining about.

 

So basically if you have a powerful 64 bit machine then I highly recommend Vista.

[Deverill]

You guys are gonna love this clip then!!

Get A Mac : Security

[carbonize]

Ah yes the I'm a mac adverts. The ones where they make out that Windows is only for office stuff like spreadsheets. Hmm how many games are there for a mac and how many for Windows?

[Deverill]

It's an advert specifically about the security features in Vista. No need to start a Mac vs PC flamewar, just thought everyone frustrated with the "reject or allow" would get a kick out of that one particular ad.

[carbonize]

And I was just commenting on the stupidity of the I'm a mac, I'm a PC adverts. I'm not a flame sort of person. Each has it's advantages and disadvantages. Same with Xbox 360 and PS3.

[stevevan]

reject

[TCH-Bruce]

Check out the

or

.

[TCH-Don]

Cute

[Madmanmcp]

So basically if you have a powerful 64 bit machine then I highly recommend Vista.

 

I remember an article awhile back where they ran tests on three benchmarks, Vista 64, Vista 32, and XP... Guess who won.

[stevevan]

Bruce...thanks for the laugh!

[carbonize]

I remember an article awhile back where they ran tests on three benchmarks, Vista 64, Vista 32, and XP... Guess who won.

 

I'm going to guess XP but if we're going to use that logic then we would all still be using Windows 98. I bet people did the same tests and said the same things when XP came out. "Oh Windows 2000 is faster on my machine than XP". The same argument applies to web design/coding. You support older browsers and dial up connections but at some point you have to say "No, I'm not going to make sure my page looks right in Netscape 4".

 

 

Damn them Linux adverts are funny.

Edited March 28, 2007 by carbonize

[Madmanmcp]

I'm going to guess XP

 

Correct

 

but if we're going to use that logic then we would all still be using Windows 98. I bet people did the same tests and said the same things when XP came out. "Oh Windows 2000 is faster on my machine than XP". The same argument applies to web design/coding. You support older browsers and dial up connections but at some point you have to say "No, I'm not going to make sure my page looks right in Netscape 4".

 

"but at some point you have to say no"

 

And that point is not now. Once the service packs start coming, once the drivers start coming and the 3rd party software is written and available...then I'll re-evaluate. Vista is not a good upgrade choice at this time.

[carbonize]

I agree for most it will be best to wait for more support. I'm only using Vista because I managed to delete my active partition thereby screwing up XP. I then thought it would be a good time to give Vista a try (my thirty day trial just seems to be going on and on and on ...). My machine is an old eMachines with 3.12Ghz chip and 1GB of memory which is all more than enough for Vista. The only place I fall flat is my graphics which is the Intel Xtreme chip. My PC only has three PCI slots so so I cannot even get a decent graphics card with Vista support.

 

My next machine will be a 64 bit machine, more than likely dual core, and will obviously come with Vista (Home Premium as Home Basic sucks). But my previous comment was just pointing out the stupidity of all the people going on about how XP is faster than Vista. "My old software that has less features and thereby uses less resources is faster than your new program that has more features and thereby uses more resources". Office 98 is faster than Office XP but I bet most people are using a version later than 98.

[JTD]

I will still stick with XP. And I even have the Vista disk sitting right here. Free of charge.

[Madmanmcp]

But my previous comment was just pointing out the stupidity of all the people going on about how XP is faster than Vista. "My old software that has less features and thereby uses less resources is faster than your new program that has more features and thereby uses more resources". Office 98 is faster than Office XP but I bet most people are using a version later than 98.

 

The tests was not about the programs, it was about the Operating Systems. They ran the same test programs on the 3 operating systems. The slowness was not caused by more features in the program. The article said that one of the possible reason for the slowdown was the video drivers, but that would only account for a little.

 

Now I've been around for years and have had to justify to managment why an upgrade would be worth their investment. I've seen them all the way back to the DOS vrs. CPM days and agree with you, they always seem to show the same thing. But for me, I don't see any features that make it worth the plunge.

[carbonize]

Ok we agree then in our own unique ways.

 

Speaking of stupid tests this is funny www.physorg.com/news94144625.html - iPods have a significant effect on driver performance

[vengavenga]

I installed Vista more or less as soon as it was released, but only managed about a week before rolling back to XP. Not so much because of Vista (which has many great features which I love), but because of incompatibilities with third party software (Dreamweaver being a good example which crashed randomly).

 

Decided to leave it a while and give developers a chance to catch up (although Vista betas were available, many developers didn't want to spend time working on Vista compatible software until they were sure what the final Vista was going to consist of).

 

Thought it was time to try again about a fortnight ago and everything is MUCH better. Everything apart from a very old webcam works perfectly (gives me an excuse to get a new one!) and I'm finding it much quicker to work with than XP.

 

Equally impressed by the latest Mac OS and Linux releases though

 

I don't think anyone should upgrade to Vista unless:

 

1) You like new toys to play with

2) You must have "the latest thing"

3) You manage to get a free/cheap upgrade

 

But if any of the above do apply, it's really (in my opinion anyway) not that bad at all

 

Ali

 

PS- the annoying "do you really want to do this?" pop up that is mentioned earlier in this thread can be easily turned off in the control panel if you want it to be.

[dcumpian]

I purchased a new Toshiba laptop for my wife whose old Windows ME (!) desktop was dying. It came pre-loaded with Vista and so far she has gotten everything that was on her old machine running successfully under Vista. I was amazed that some old software, like Corel Printhouse, loaded and ran under Vista without any issues.

 

The only issue we had was with an old Logitech webcam...finally got it working though.

 

Dan

[JTD]

Well I just had to bite the big one and install my free upgrade of vista home premium on my laptop. Which isn't even an hp. Since the copy of xp that was on it got corrupted somehow. So far so good no faster or slower than before. I did lose all my personal stuff though. But I had lost it anyhow since xp was corrupted. May I also ad this is an old laptop. 1.5 gig and only 512 of ram. But i ma still not going to upgrade my hp desktop to vista. This was a last ditch effort to get my laptop working.

Edited June 9, 2007 by JTD

[JTD]

Update on the above post. Well vista home premium is ok. It just takes some getting used to. But I still prefer XP. Now if anyone knows how to get XP back onto a machine that has vista please let me know. Vista will not let you reformat the hard drive. Nor have I been able to just reinstall my copy of XP which is a full version disk btw. I cannot even install my copy of XP pro. So far i see two choices, #1 find myself a rather large magnet we all know what that does to a hard drive. Or take it to a computer shop and let them do it. <-- I am to cheap for this choice. So if anyone knows something I do not please post it here or pm me.

[heyguy]

If you boot from the XP install disk, you're saying it doesn't allow you to just delete/reformat the OS partition?

[Madmanmcp]

Update on the above post. Well vista home premium is ok. It just takes some getting used to. But I still prefer XP. Now if anyone knows how to get XP back onto a machine that has vista please let me know. Vista will not let you reformat the hard drive. Nor have I been able to just reinstall my copy of XP which is a full version disk btw. I cannot even install my copy of XP pro. So far i see two choices, #1 find myself a rather large magnet we all know what that does to a hard drive. Or take it to a computer shop and let them do it. <-- I am to cheap for this choice. So if anyone knows something I do not please post it here or pm me.

 

 

Have you thought about a dual boot?

 

h_tp://www.istartedsomething.com/20060622/installing-and-uninstall-vista-beta-2-for-dual-boot-with-xp/

[Madmanmcp]

or see if this helps

 

h_tp://www.techspot.com/vb/topic79717.html

[JTD]

If you boot from the XP install disk, you're saying it doesn't allow you to just delete/reformat the OS partition?

 

Yep that is what I am saying. I have my bios set to boot from the disk drive and it will not boot to the xp disk or the xp pro disk. And as far as a duel boot on my laptop it is only a 40gig hard drive. And vista has taken up a very large amount of that. So that is out of the question. Besides that vista WILL NOT let me format or do anything with the existing hard drive. I have tried it in regular mode safe mode every kind of mode it has no go.

[heyguy]

It should have nothing to do with Vista. If you are booting from a CD, Vista isn't running, and so it shouldn't be able to stop you.

[Madmanmcp]

I have my bios set to boot from the disk drive and it will not boot to the xp disk or the xp pro disk.

 

Thats the problem. You need to NOT boot from the disk, you need to go in and change your boot order so you CAN boot from the XP CD. The you will be able to remove Vista and load XP.

[JTD]

Thats the problem. You need to NOT boot from the disk, you need to go in and change your boot order so you CAN boot from the XP CD. The you will be able to remove Vista and load XP.

 

Ok this is what I have for boot options in my bios. CD/DVD-0, Disabled,IDE-0, And that is all. O have 3 boot options and all of them are set on CD/DVD-0 The only one I have not tried is disabled.

 

Here we go. Loading files ---------- Starting Windows------ And nothing This is what the screen says word for word. Better yet here is a shot of the screen. I can hit enter as it says to my little hearts content and nothing happens.

 

Edited June 28, 2007 by JTD

[heyguy]

Looks like you're using an Upgrade disc. You own the full version?

[JTD]

Looks like you're using an Upgrade disc. You own the full version?

 

 

Actually that is a full version disk. But there is a bright side to this story. I also have a xp pro disk. So I put all my boot options on disable. And put in the xp pro disk. Lo and behold it actually started to reformat my hard drive. Then for some strange reason the xp pro disk asked for my xp home disk. Anyhow the up side is I now have xp back on my laptop. I do not know how but it is there. Now the fun of doing all those updates and reinstalling software.

 

 

 

PS. Does anyone want a copy of Vista Home Premium????

Edited June 28, 2007 by JTD