Guest Itai Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 (edited) Hi guys, OK. This is a post-sales and pres-sales question at the same time. I currently have one domain hosted with you (www.neocamera.com) and have been quite satisfied with the service, particularly the response-time for issues. Recently, I got some new domains (4) that are not hosted anywhere yet and have been considering my options. I know that with one vanilla virtual hosting account (mine is a Silver) I can only host one domain. On the left side of my cpanel is currently says: Parked Domains 0 / 0 Addon Domains 0 / 0 I also know that you have reseller accounts for allow multiple domains (do not know how many). The problem with them is that the basic plans cost 4 to 6 times the price of one domain Silver hosting but allow less bandwidth. For 5 sites, I would need much more bandwidth Instead I could buy 4 starter plans which would come around $21 USD/month (including the silver I already have) for 5 domains. While what I would get for $21/m is good, this is no longer competive. There are several hosting companies which offer similar hosting with a number of add-on domains, either included or for an extra, but small, monthly fee. For example, another host has $10/month plans with 100 add-on domains and unlimited bandwith. There is also another host that offers $7/month accounts with 10 add-on domains and 2.5 TB/month of bandwidth. Here is my question: Could I buy additional domains on my Silver account (or another upgraded virtual hosting account) for a competitive price? Would you consider offering this in the short term? Or upgrading the basic service level to allow multiple domains. The time frame for me is roughly the next 2 months. Thanks in advance, - Itai www.neocamera.com Edited January 10, 2007 by TCH-Thomas There is no reason to mention other hosts by name or linking to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TCH-Thomas Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 You could park them on top of the main domain for free. All it requires is a ticket at the helpdesk. To have the domains pointing to different content you would need several virtual plans or a reseller plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abinidi Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 Hi Itai, Welcome to the forums. Indeed, TCH does not offer multiple domains on a single account, and while it would be cheaper for me if they did, I understand why they don't. TCH is committed to providing you (and other customers that share your server) with high quality, fast hosting. Webhosts that offer hundreds of add-on domains, or that offer unlimited bandwidth don't have (1) the quality servers that TCH provides, (2) the speed that TCH servers provide, (3) the uptime that TCH provides. Those servers are most often oversold and under supported. It is simply a matter of economics. There is more load on those servers, and they don't have the revenue to support them. Additionally, allowing add-on domains can encourage SPAM senders or scammers to set up shop on servers. Since TCH doesn't allow it, spammers stay away, and TCH servers stay off the blacklists. TCH is really protecting you and other clients on the servers by not allowing any one user to overload the servers, taking away bandwith and processing time that you are paying your share for. So, yeah, my pocketbook says add-on domains would be nifty. My brain, however, understands (and agrees with) TCH's policy. Have a great day. Hope to see you around the forums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Itai Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 Hi, >Welcome to the forums. Thanks, I've been lurking and posting for 2 years though As I said, TCH offers good service. That is why I wanted to offer them a chance to remain competive. When I chose them for Neocamera, they had the best deal available. Many hosting places claim to offer good service, but we truly do not know until we deal with them. TCH does give good service at good price for a single domain, that is why I stayed. >Indeed, TCH does not offer multiple domains on a single account, and while it would be cheaper for >me if they did, I understand why they don't. TCH is committed to providing you (and other customers >that share your server) with high quality, fast hosting. Webhosts that offer hundreds of add-on domains, >or that offer unlimited bandwidth don't have (1) the quality servers that TCH provides, (2) the speed >that TCH servers provide, (3) the uptime that TCH provides. Those servers are most often oversold >and under supported. It is simply a matter of economics. There is more load on those servers, and they >don't have the revenue to support them. Unless you checked out these other hosting services, I'll consider this speculation. he problem with your argument is that domains and bandwith usage are not corrolated. At TCH you can pay $5/month for 40 GB of bandwidth or you can pay $29/month for 35 GB! The difference? With one fee you get one domain, the other you get many. When domain management is automated, it does not cost more to manage more than one. Supporting more bandwidth costs more though and therefore it is fair to "pay your share". >Additionally, allowing add-on domains can encourage SPAM senders or scammers to set up shop on >servers. Since TCH doesn't allow it, spammers stay away, and TCH servers stay off the blacklists. I did not know this but the potential for abuse is not a reason to dissallow something. Companies still sell papers even though they can be used for all sorts of bad things, including SPAM. >TCH is really protecting you and other clients on the servers by not allowing any one user to overload >the servers, taking away bandwith and processing time that you are paying your share for. See comment above on bandwith not being equal to domains. >So, yeah, my pocketbook says add-on domains would be nifty. My brain, however, understands (and >agrees with) TCH's policy. >Have a great day. Hope to see you around the forums. Thanks anyways, - Itai www.neocamera.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TCH-Bruce Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 While you are free to host where ever you wish you will find there are several members here that have left for the greener pastures only to come back when they found out that the other hosting company they chose could not deliver on their promise. If you decide to leave, I wish you luck finding as good elsewhere. Also, you say you have been lurking and posting here so why not login with your forum name? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idanan Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 While you are free to host where ever you wish you will find there are several members here that have left for the greener pastures only to come back when they found out that the other hosting company they chose could not deliver on their promise. If you decide to leave, I wish you luck finding as good elsewhere. Also, you say you have been lurking and posting here so why not login with your forum name? Thanks again for a prompt reply. Now I logged in. I just forgot the first times... Finding a bad hosting company is easy, so I understand why people return. TCH definetely does hosting well. I'll recommend it easily. Now I have some new sites, I'm not planning on risking my existing site with another hosting company. It is here, it works and there is some bandwidthleft at the end of the month. The question was about some new sites. Until they pay for themselves, I have to keep costs down but still provide a good surfing experience for visitors.That's what I'm shopping for now. - Itai www.neocamera.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TCH-Don Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 My previous host allowed add-on domains. It is easily abused by a customer selling space to friends. And that is how the server is overloaded. The host thinks they have say 100 customers on a server when in fact there is no way to tell how many people are on the server. Before I left my last host my site was off line more than online. And I had a lot of trouble connecting with ftp, too many ftp users online. And that is why I am here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abinidi Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 Hi, >Welcome to the forums. Thanks, I've been lurking and posting for 2 years though As I said, TCH offers good service. That is why I wanted to offer them a chance to remain competive. When I chose them for Neocamera, they had the best deal available. Many hosting places claim to offer good service, but we truly do not know until we deal with them. TCH does give good service at good price for a single domain, that is why I stayed. >Indeed, TCH does not offer multiple domains on a single account, and while it would be cheaper for >me if they did, I understand why they don't. TCH is committed to providing you (and other customers >that share your server) with high quality, fast hosting. Webhosts that offer hundreds of add-on domains, >or that offer unlimited bandwidth don't have (1) the quality servers that TCH provides, (2) the speed >that TCH servers provide, (3) the uptime that TCH provides. Those servers are most often oversold >and under supported. It is simply a matter of economics. There is more load on those servers, and they >don't have the revenue to support them. Unless you checked out these other hosting services, I'll consider this speculation. he problem with your argument is that domains and bandwith usage are not corrolated. At TCH you can pay $5/month for 40 GB of bandwidth or you can pay $29/month for 35 GB! The difference? With one fee you get one domain, the other you get many. When domain management is automated, it does not cost more to manage more than one. Supporting more bandwidth costs more though and therefore it is fair to "pay your share". >Additionally, allowing add-on domains can encourage SPAM senders or scammers to set up shop on >servers. Since TCH doesn't allow it, spammers stay away, and TCH servers stay off the blacklists. I did not know this but the potential for abuse is not a reason to dissallow something. Companies still sell papers even though they can be used for all sorts of bad things, including SPAM. >TCH is really protecting you and other clients on the servers by not allowing any one user to overload >the servers, taking away bandwith and processing time that you are paying your share for. See comment above on bandwith not being equal to domains. >So, yeah, my pocketbook says add-on domains would be nifty. My brain, however, understands (and >agrees with) TCH's policy. >Have a great day. Hope to see you around the forums. Thanks anyways, - Itai www.neocamera.com Yes, well, sorry I didn't know you were a long-time user. You can see how I made an assumption based on your not being logged in... Yes, I have indeed "checked out" multiple other hosting solutions. In fact, not long after I joined the TCH customer family, I had a group of acquaintences who wanted to start their own webhosting business. I worked with them for about six months doing research, checking out the space, and setting up a few clients. After six months I left the company, because I realized that I didn't believe enough in them to switch my hosting from TCH. Even before that, I hosted my website with a number of different webhosts -- some better than others. While I haven't checked out every web host out there (obviously), I'd say I've checked out enough that I can make my prior claim without it being pure speculation, though I admit that I'm sure there are some great webhosts out there that I just haven't found yet. After I found TCH I quit looking. I understand your agrument that bandwith and add-on domains are not necessarily corrolated. I might have five domains that have very low traffic, so they might be able to share a bunch of space and bandwidth and not cause anybody else problems. However, I'd say that in many cases, allowing tons of add-on domains does indeed affect the server's processor, and affect the server's ability to serve other clients on that server. Let's take a hypothetical server. I'm making these numbers up. Let's say that a hosting company has a server with 100 accounts. We'll use round numbers to keep things simple. If the hosting company does not allow add-on domains, then there are only 100 URLs pointing to the server. The processor only has to handle requests for 100 websites. What if the hosting company allows 10 add-on domains? Then the potential jumps to 1000 websites on the same server with the same hardware. Now the server has to handle requests for a thousand sites. Some of these sites may not be processor heavy or intensive, but some of them may be. Overall quality for all users on that server declines because the server gets overloaded. Your comaprison comapny allowed 100 add-on domains. That means that potentially this hypothetical server could be hosting 10,000 separate sites.... using the same hardware. With 10,000 sites sucking processor time and bandwith, you can see how the server isn't meeting the needs of the individual account holders as it would if add-on domains were not allowed. Which server do you want to be on? The server that is trying to meet the needs of 10,000 websites for 100 account users? Or the server that is trying to meet the needs of 100 websites for 100 account users? Is my example extreme? Yes. I recognize that not all users will max out the number of add-on domains that are allowed. But when you open the door, the potential exists. TCH recognizes this and keeps the rest of us with good service by not compromising the servers with tons of add-on domains. And those sites that claim you can use unlimited bandwidth? See what happens when your site gets /.ed or digged. They aren't really offering unlimited bandwidth. Bandwidth isn't free. In the end, you may not believe us. Ok. Good luck finding out on your own. But I stand by my assertion that TCH does the rest of their clients a favor by not allowing add-on domains as a rule. Customer service is better and the servers run better. Simiple math shows the potential disaster of opening this particular can of worms. As for the SPAM issue, I totall disagree with your premise. The potential for abuse is absolutley a reason for disallowing something. The potential for abuse is the reason you need a prescription to purchase many drugs. Other drugs are outright banned in many countries. It's the reason you need a license to drive an automobile, and the reason you need a permit to conceal/cary a handgun. TCH recognizes that there are ways that spammers function. They try to protect legitimate clients by disallowing behaviors common to spammers. If another hosting company wants to provide a spammer-friendly environment, horay for them. Just keep the spammers off MY server, which is what TCH is trying to do. Thank you TCH for your continued efforts to keep spammers off my servers. There are a number of scripts that aren't allowed on TCH servers. Why? Becasue they compromise the server in a way that negatively affects other TCH customers. As a service provider, TCH has the right (and the responsibility to their other clients) to enforce controls on their property (in this case, the servers). I, for one, am greatful that they are doing it. It is what keeps my service runnign so well, and a reason why I'm such a staunch defender of the folks who run this business. Disclaimer: I'm not affiliated in TCH with any way. I'm just a happy customer. I speak my opinions only and I don't speak for any other entity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heyguy Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 Ditto what Paul said. idanan, I think you're comparing apples to oranges here. Virtual Hosting != Reseller Hosting. The additional cost of reseller hosting is not just purely disk space and bandwidth - it is also the ability to host as many domains as you want, the ability to manage those domains, and the ability to sell your space to others for however much you want. If you are not reselling and you are strapped for cash, then you may be correct that this is not for you. What is important to understand is that TCH is not *insert super-magical-unlimited-bandwidth-offering-host here* (I think we can all guess who that is). TCH is a small family-owned and operated outfit. Decisions must be made to keep the balance between customer satisfaction and growing too big too fast and not being able to keep up with that growth. Letting users run amok adding new accounts as they please with little money coming in is only possible if 1) you overcrowd your servers, or 2) you have a lot (and I mean a lot) of customers and very slim margins. I would say that thus far TCH is doing a fine job of managing what they have and adapting to keep current customers happy and potential customers coming in. There is no shortage of hosting companies out here. People come here and stay here, and often leave and then come back again, because the servers are taken care of and are reliable, they are watched closely and abuse is dealt with swiftly, support is some of the best you'll find anywhere, and it's cheap. Perhaps we are seeing the Wal-Martization (is that a word?) of the hosting world. There are some big players out there offering ridiculous deals that in economic reality most other hosting companies can't match, and at the end of the day they count their money and you are left with a cheap product without a human face behind it. For my $4, it's nice to be on a first name basis with the support guys. Besides, there really is no such thing as unlimited anything, and I'd be surprised if they let you get near that 2.5TB of bandwidth either. I guess the bottom line is that it's not all about disk space and bandwidth. Also, you should keep in mind that the numbers listed for reseller accounts should be doubled to get the total amount of space you are allotted. For example, the Basic Reseller plan gives you 2250MB of disk space and 35GB for the reseller account, and an additional 2250MB of disk space and 35GB of bandwidth to be split up amongst your resold accounts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deverill Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 The problem with your argument is that domains and bandwith usage are not corrolated. At TCH you can pay $5/month for 40 GB of bandwidth or you can pay $29/month for 35 GB! There is something that you are not considering. TCH doesn't put as many resellers on a server as they do virtual accounts. Consider these made up numbers as I don't know the real ones and wouldn't ask them such private info: Server 1 - 500 virtual accounts - one domain per account - 40 GB each. - $5/month = $2,500 income Server 2 - 100 reseller accounts - unlimited domains per account - 35 GB each. 29/month = $2,900 income I'm not even sure there aren't more expenses related to reseller accounts/servers but would not be surprised if there were. Considering the return on investment from TCH's point of view, it only makes sense. From a user's point of view, I'm glad resellers are on servers that are easier to manage and handle when there's a problem. You are absolutely right that it seems inequitable -- but there are many behind the scenes things that go into the decision TCH has made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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