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OK, this is been installed I understand.


But how does one use it?


How does one build a web site with it the 37 signals web site is not helpful in this regard after a thorough surfing. :group:


Can someone point me to a qucik and easy way to allegedly start this quick and easy web site builder?

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Have you looked here?




But I truly don't see what the fuss is all about, that looks like a nightmare to install and there are no easy to understand instructions. Like I said, is there someone that can show how this thing allegedly allows you to build web pages quickly? I don't see one.

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Like I said, is there someone that can show how this thing allegedly allows you to build web pages quickly? I don't see one.


i doubt ruby on rails will allow you to build webpages more quickly than an app written in php, but app development in ruby on rails is supposedly fast.

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Actually check out these screencasts: http://www.rubyonrails.com/screencasts


You'll notice that something like a simple blog (programming your own that is) which might take four or five hours with PHP. Could take as little as thirty minutes with Ruby on Rails.


The learning curve for Ruby on Rails is high, I personally am no expert, but once you know what you're doing your productivity skyrockets. I've been programming with PHP for more than 4 years and it still feels like I'm as slow as a turtle.



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  • 3 weeks later...
I don't like runyonrails for the same reason I'm not over ken on .NET. It makes making things easy but you have little power over what happens. I prefer to get my hands dirty and that way you know exactly whats going on.


Actually, in contrast to .NET, Ruby/Rails does enable the power programmer to do exactly what he/she wants. It's a framework, and like any other it abstracts away the grunt work - moving data to/from the database and between forms and the processing of data submitted in those forms. However, it's all built on top of Ruby and if you know Ruby you can easily dip below the abstraction layer and do everything exactly the way you want to. Want to write your own SQL selects/inserts/updates/deletes, want to painstakingly scribble out the code for every form tag in your pages - have at it, neither Ruby nor Rails gets in the way of doing this. But you don't have to know Ruby like a robed master to use Rails effectively. When I can write a couple lines like this:


@categories = Category.find(:all)

<%= select('recipe','category',@categories) %>


...and end up with a SELECT drop-down that is appropriately named, id'd and styled listing all the categories in my categories table, that then feeds back to my database without a hitch and includes behind-the-scenes work to cleanse form data, and does it all FAST, I'm more than sold on the productivity gains to be had.


Obviously, I'm a Rails fanatic, but let it be known I've been into it for the short period of 6 weeks. I've been doing PHP for about 6 years, and I HONESTLY think I manage to do equivalent design work in Rails in about 25% of the time it would take me in PHP.


The first couple chapters of this book (http://pragmaticprogrammer.com/titles/rails/index.html) is a great introduction to Rails providing an overview and insight into why it's so hot with a bunch of people right now, complete with installation instructions to get the environment up and running on your local machine (windows/max/linux) and a tutorial taking you through development of a real-world application and demonstrating how the framework really shines. I recommend it highly for anyone interested in delving more deeply into Rails.



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It makes making things easy but you have little power over what happens. I prefer to get my hands dirty and that way you know exactly whats going on.


Ah, but you're a minority, Carby (not that I'm not of a similar mindset). Most people just want things to work and the quicker the better. They don't want to know how bootstrapping works, they just want the computer to come on and let them play solitare. They aren't interested in satellites and radio waves, they just want to click a button and have the TV show them football.


In the world of making money, the faster you can get something working, the better. If I have to write graphics routines for my combo boxes in .NET it will take forever. If I can just drag a control then yay... I can get my better-mousetrap program out to market before the next chump can.


As I said, I enjoy programming for the knowledge, but as I work longer and longer at this I'm glad to have tools to make it faster/easier when possible.


Ruby on Rails is not for everyone. If you just want a blog or a website then there's no need to use it so sit back, take a sip of your iced tea and say "Ahhh, one less thing I have to worry about!" If you want to have a website that works in a unique way or differently than the packages available then you'll have to write that functionality and perhaps RoR is for you. It's certainly nice to have it available if needed.

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And what you will end up with is a lot of home made blogs etc that all work in exactly the same way and all do exactly the same things. Their will be nothing unique. Simple is not always good. You will get people throwing together scripts with little or no scripting experience and end up with sites getting exploited through holes they didn't realise existed.

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I'm not familiar with Ruby so it may be true of that, but I'd say there are many unique products created with .NET, with which I am familiar. It is true that uninformed people are empowered to do stupid things, but does that mean we shouldn't have cars because some get drunk before driving? Actually, that's a good idea! Let's just have car parts and if your are a responsible driver you'll go to school to learn how to build your car! (j/k!)


You are right that there will be a lot of problems with these types of tools, but there are also many advances because the guy that can think "out-of-the-box" can now enter the fray and put something together that shows us well-edumacated folks a new way of looking at something that we never thought of before.


I have that a lot with my Pastor - he looks at the website and says "Why can't we do ...." and my reaction is "Because, duh." But then I think about it and say "why not!" and the site gets better.

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Guest tohaet

I do not agree that .NET takes power aware from you, you can have a lot of power, and you have a very nice object oriented system to play on (much better than PHP) and a nice logic / interface split with the codebehind and objects.


However, with ASP.NET you have a lot of overhead and extra code that has to be ran to achieve even a little dynamic output. However, TCH don't offer this.


Ruby on Rail's is the managers dream, you can, in effect, drag and drop a whole system into place. However, the system will look like the one your competitor did the same way. It costs you less in labour, but will cost you more in terms of being similar to your competitor. It will clost you more in resources used, these systems need a lot of power to achieve what they do.


A CGI application written and compiled to native machine code is obviously going to run fast. Next you have the likes of .NET which are pre compiled and their intermediate language ran at runtime. Then comes PHP which is usually ran by an interpreter each and every time. You can make PHP nice by writing lots of class libraries for it, but this makes for a lot more interpratation at runtime.


Obviously these inefficencies matter on a shared hosting platform, because say TCH host 300 sites per server, all this extra power could show problems. 300 customers serving their sites 24/7, all linking to a sql database, with ftp daemons, pop3, imap, smtp etc... running together.


On a more engineering point of view, these languages and systems promote sloppy design and coding, they dont promote a design approach(they promote a do it as fast as possible), and separation of code. It's pretty much on par with programming in VB, where managers could in theory do a lot of stuff without code, for simple reporting from database access. But what made the manager's life easier, made the server admins life hard.


In Summary, forget Ruby on Rails and learn something useful ;-)

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