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Frames Vs Straight Html


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I was having a discussion tonight with a friend about web design. The topic got around to pages with frames versus pages that are straight HTML (or NON-frames). We agreed to disagree and post the question here for all of the family members to chime in on.


So which would you prefer and why?

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Steve, a couple of years ago SBC was asserting that they held the rights to the use of frames and were hounding folks about it. There were a few articles on slashdot about it. Museum Tours had a letter they received on their web site but it has been removed.


slashdot org/articles/03/04/30/2116207.shtml?tid=


I had a couple of site using frames but I converted them to avoid problems.



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Steve, I am going to give you the only reply that is FOR frames!


The one time I like them is when the index is updated very often.


EG.. http://www.equineslinked.com


I think its better not to use them if you can, but in the whole scheme of things,

sometimes frames are useful.




Great thread Steve!



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I agree with pretty much everyone here, frames are simply more trouble than they are worth. However, I have a very nice PERL chat I built using frames (sorry, no sample online at the moment). But even then I made sure there was a working non-frames version that was user selectable. I have one page on my site that uses an iframe for the petfinder site. Even that is a bit radical for me because I have iframes turned off in my Internet Explorer (except for trusted sites).



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I use frames on the home page of my site (but no where else), because I wanted a way to keep the menu choices on screen for each links content without reloading the whole page, and I also use the header with a refresh to display my random tips. Some pages I open in new windows, such as forums (and on my old server, the webmail), because I think it is easier to read on a full screen.

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I think frames, like table-based layouts, are a stage designers go through--they're easy to use and they will get the job done. But the best designers I know abandon them for various server-side includes and pure CSS design.


Which is not to say that frames and table layouts are useless--there are times when they can be useful or are the best option--but 90% of the time I find them inelegant, clunky, and a less than ideal solution to the problem they're 'fixing'. But I am a CSS junkie. I probably have a button somewhere and everything.

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My first attempt at a website was with frames, at the time it was the only way I could accomplish the way I wanted all the pages to work. I spent a lot of time working on the design and layout and once I had it in place I decided to keep it. I concidered rewriting the site and not using frames, but this would be a huge task. I've collected data for 8 years and each year could be separate site and the work would take too long. I decided to keep frames cause of the old saying, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.


Common Reasons to not use frames:

1. Hard to navigate.

I don't think so for the one I designed. I replace each frame, each time you move. Its difficult to code and there are a lot of files but I believe navigating is not an issue.


2. Search engines and crawlers don't like frames and you lose possible viewers.

Not an issue for me. I don't want this site listed and don't care who misses it because its not listed.


3. Viewers get caught in a frame within a frame within frame circle.

Again, not an issue. Its a design issue and it does not happen because all frames are replaced each time you move.


Since these top reasons have no meaning to me, I'll keep the frames :notworthy:

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