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whoahorse
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I wasn't sure if this was the right category? Feel free to move it if you want.

 

I am very grateful that TCH does not put banner ads all over its forum. I just was at a horsey forum that was COVERED in ads! I have high speed and it took some time for them all to download before the rest of the forum would.

 

Do people not get annoyed by this, or is it just me?

 

Are these people getting so tight with our money that they have to wallpaper their domains with banners? Is that the reason?

 

Any thoughts?

 

Weezy

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I personally hate ads and such things, but lets say this forum you mention are run by one person that have a 100% interest in what it does but have those ads to pay for the space, domain and so on, then Im ok with it.

What is worse are those big sites that you know have money and dont have their website for something other than making money but still have ads not actually relevant to their product, then it... :)

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And I'll second the recommendation for the Adblocker extension.

 

If you are unfamiliar with Firefox, then I'll explain that extensions are little programs that you install that add functionality to your browser.

 

Here are some of the extensions I have installed in my version of Firefox:

 

Adblock. This extension lets you click on any image, and block it from your screen. You can use a * symbol as a wildcard to block all images from certain advertisers. For example, one entry in my block list is: h**p://*.advertising.com/* -- so any images being sent to my computer from any server on the advertising.com domain will not be displayed in my browser. Ever. My web pages look a lot cleaner, now that I'm able to remove the ugly ads.

 

ForecastFox. This extension is a highly customizable Weather.com extension that shows the weather forecast for my zip code in the status bar of my Firefox browser. Right now I can see that it is currently Partly Cloudy in my city with a 60% chance of precipitation today.

 

ieview. Despite how wonderful Firefox truly is, there are some websites (like pages in my corporate portal) that only work using MS IE. This extension puts a link in my context menu (the menu I see when I right-click in blank space on a webpage) to open that page in MS IE. If I navigate to a page that Firefox can't show, I can just right click to see the page in MS IE.

 

I have more, but this is just the beginning. I highly recommend that you install and use Firefox. It is very easy to use!!!!

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Is everyone going firefox now?

 

Is it easy to install?

 

Weezy

 

I run mostly IE with all scripting shut down and add sites as needed to the trusted sites list if they have a legitimate need to run a script. That is really the only safe way to go with ANY browser. I also run firefox and an older netscape to test web pages. I haven't seen a popup ad for years and I never have to worry about the latest vulnerability because 99% of them are in the scripting functions.

 

As far as ads go I like the way google has theirs set up in all text. I do click those occasionally. I have run into sites that take a topic, grab the DMOZ section for that topic, link to a forum on that topic, etc...using everyone else's content and plastering it with ads. I have wondered if that actually works. Yeah...it tics me off but so does spam email and that has made some people millionaires. People have actually recommended such sites to me as the greatest place they have ever found, totally unaware that the site itself has absolutely no original content.

 

If you look at a lot of the big sites today, though, you will see a definite shift away from the flash bang plaster with ads school. Look at craig's list. I think that is a forerunner of a new breed. I have seen estimates that they are making about $17 million a year. They don't even have any image files on their home page. Not a graphic in sight and no scripting at all. That is the main thing I hear from the people using it. They want their information plain and simple without all the special effects.

 

Lee

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Well, Firefox just interprets what is there. Ideally, when you build a website, you should make it so it is viewable in all browsers, not just IE. So having a couple of different browsers installed helps you as a web developer make sure that all your users have a consistent experience when they view your site.

 

If you are running a PC, I'd recommend that you have *at least* Firefox, IE an Netscape installed; maybe even Mozilla and Opera. That way can view your site from the perspective of all your users, not just your IE-using ones.

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I think I will take a poll with my clients of what they are using..

 

Thanks for the advice!

 

I worry about installing new stuff on my computer, every time I do..

 

my computer..

 

 

:eek: :excl: :sly:

 

Then I am :clapping: at TCH for help.

 

LOL

 

B)

 

Weezy

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The biggest problem I found was using netscape on Linux. I could not get my pages to look right in that browser at all. I just decided to draw the line there. That might have changed, since it has been a couple years since I have surfed from Linux. but I agree with abinidi, a web designer should have at least IE, FF, and Netscape installed to test your pages.

 

I have gotten so used to the differences I hardly ever have to test in mor than one browser. But sometimes another browser will show errors that your main one doesn't. If you miss some end tag somewhere the page might look fine in IE but not show at all in FF.

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I think I will take a poll with my clients of what they are using..

Weezy

 

Pages don't look the same between IE and Firefox, that I can tell you right now.

 

That said, over 75% of my visitors are running IE, just over 10% are using Firefox and the rest aren't enough to worry about (netscape gets a scant 1%).

 

3/4 of my visitors are using the #1 browser on the planet. I'm not going to go adding a bunch of extra coding to all my pages for that 10% that are using firefox, they'll simply get what firefox interprets as being the correct code.

 

I know, for example, that my tables take up the full width of the screen in firefox, but only as much as needed in IE.

 

Look at the URL below in both browsers and you will see what I mean.

Nothing I did in the code would make it look in firefox the way it looks in IE. so I stopped worrying about it. :clapping:

 

http://www.thehomeforums.com/cgi-bin/prinfo.cgi

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To toss my $.02 worth in, I too use FF for about 95% of my browsing. There are a couple of sites needed for work that REQUIRE use of IE. (I won't even go there! :clapping: ) For development, I test in IE and FF, using IE as the predominate one, since that's what is the predominate browser out there. And yes, there is a noticable difference between the two. But, like I said, since IE is the main one, that's the one I focus on.

 

Just a quick question...does anyone know how much of a difference there is between Firefox and Netscape? Is it enough to warrant installing just for test purposes?

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All of my pages look exactly the same in Netscape, Firefox and IE and it doesn't take much to accomplish that. All you need is to learn a few simple expedients. I outline many of them in my HTML tutorial. And my pages aren't always simple either. Take this page for example:

 

http://www.verchi.com/prose/wind.htm

 

Those Doric style columns are actually tables and they look exactly the same in all major browsers.

 

As to the idea that you needn't bother with only 10% using a certain browser...Perhaps that is fine for a personal site but I certainly couldn't get away with that attitude with my serious business customers. 10% is a rather large portion of your customer base in this competitive world. Businesses can't afford to portray a sloppy image to that many potential customers, not if they want to compete.

 

 

Lee

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As to the idea that you needn't bother with only 10% using a certain browser...Perhaps that is fine for a personal site but I certainly couldn't get away with that attitude with my serious business customers. 10% is a rather large portion of your customer base in this competitive world. Businesses can't afford to portray a sloppy image to that many potential customers, not if they want to compete.

 

Agreed. What if TCH didn't optomize their site for Firefox, and you couldn't navigate the page if you were using Firefox? They would lose 10% of their customers; I wouldn't do business with a web hosting company that can't make it's webpage look decent in a major browser...

 

Happily TCH is very Firefox-friendly. :clapping:

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Good points for sure!

 

I installed it and tried surfing a bit.

 

One thing so far I do not like about firefox, the coloured scroll bar is gone on the websites. What up with that?

 

Weezy

Edited by whoahorse
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So... if Firefox is so great why are the majority of people not using it?

 

Weezy

 

 

Firefox is a good browser, but it simply is not as refined as IE in many respects. And before the firefox fans go off on me let me say that I am a veteran of such wars all the way back to IBM vs DEC before they ever even invented the PC. I have been through too many such battles to pledge allegiance to any product or reject a product simply because it works differently.

 

Where firefox got it's recent boost in popularity is in two factors. First, Microsoft has been the bully of the tech world for quite a while and people resent that. Second, there have been some serious vulnerabilities in IE and not all of them can be patched. There is an active X script floating around that will format your hard drive without any input from the user. All you have to do is hit one wrong web page. Last I heard there were no plans at all to patch that. Quite simply, if you are browsing with IE with scripting enabled it isn't a matter of "IF" but "WHEN" your computer will be taken over. In fact the department of homeland security last year issued a warning for people to find alternatives to IE.

 

Most people aren't that internet savvy to understand any of that and even among those who are, there is a certain amount of inertia that keeps them with the product they are familiar with. I have seen cases where a computer savvy individual (no names please) switched friends to firefox, connecting it to an IE icon and telling them it was the latest version and they accepted it no problem because they simply didn't know any better. But when you tell them it is a different product they don't like it.

 

Actually, Firefox only seems more secure because it isn't as popular with hackers either...yet... If it were as popular, we would see just as many vulnerabilities and attacks. I use Internet Explorer because I simply cannot work any other browser into my workflow system without major inconvenience. But I also keep all scripting shut down and I would advise doing that no matter what browser you are using. and that is something to consider whil;e building web pages as well.

 

Lee

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Good points for sure!

 

I installed it and tried surfing a bit.

 

One thing so far I do not like about firefox, the coloured scroll bar is gone on the websites.  What up with that?

 

Weezy

 

 

You touched on one of the main reasons people don't like Microsoft. They tend to add their own proprietary elements to open standards like JAVA and HTML so that everyone else's products look inferior. They also tend to implement the open standards in ways that make other browsers look broken. I found it rather interesting that they have carried this so far that, in the Microsoft Word spelling dictionary there is no plural for "browser". That may have changed since the version I am using but I somehow doubt it.

 

Anyway, this is just another aspect of HTML that web designers need to be aware of.

 

Lee

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Lee, this is all very interesting.

 

I have one question thou?

 

Isn't it all alot of hype?

 

I personally don't care if Microsoft is doing great, they have a great product. I don't mind supporting them. Why are people against those that are so successful?

 

I am trying to be open minded but I really like IE. LOL!!!

 

The other thing not mentioned here is some anti - spyware programs themselves are full of spyware. I had one on my computer and it drove me nuts. I tried to uninstall it and that was even worse!!!

 

Weezy

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hello everybody,

 

As for me I use IE and i love it it works in every way for me

 

blocks all ads and pop ups and pop unders even active x and downloads

 

cookie no problem them to :lol2: wondering how?

 

Settings

block all popups Set to high "if I like the site just right click the bar at top and says acept from this site. and never worry about it again. ;)

 

Note: if you like a site and it has ad pop ups and you dont what to except pop ups because of the ads then just right click the link and selet open in new window :sly:

 

downloads,active X, automaticaly follow the rule above except downloads it will keep on propting you but if your not a heavy downloader then no problem :D

 

cookies

block all third party , and promt me for first party cookies once a cookie has been excepted it will never bug you again :)

 

no extra software installed except my firewall on my 2Wire Router :)

Edited by mr_lucas
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Lee, this is all very interesting.

 

I have one question thou?

 

Isn't it all alot of hype?

 

Weezy

 

That is a reasonable question. There is so much hype and BS flying around today it is almost impossible for the average person to know who is telling the truth and who is just pushing some unseen agenda. For the record, I use MS windows, MS word, MS FrontPage, MS Publisher, MS PowerPoint, MS Excel, MS Access, MS Outlook Express and MS Internet Explorer. I like them and I have even contributed to the development of some of these products. In fact part of the reason I have all this MS software is that they basically handed me their entire product line as a perk for some of my contributions.

 

So I have no agenda against Microsoft. But I have also been on the inside of the computer industry in the Seattle area throughout the development of the personal computer and I have seen a lot of this first hand. One of the biggest problems is that, in the process of stifling competition, Microsoft often screws up their own products to the point where they aren't even usable on a professional scale any longer. Their products are good but watch out for the Trojans. I am very careful about what I allow FrontPage or IE to do without close supervision.

 

It is best to keep in mind that Microsoft is not an altruistic entity working for the good of all mankind. They are a ruthless competitor with one agenda...making money. Under the best-case scenario, government agencies and the judicial system would keep things fair but that system has broken down in this case. Your best defense is to educate yourself.

 

Lee

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Im just visiting that forum, Weezy with Firefox´s adblocker etc enabled (all that is disabled is my Norton Ad/popup blocker) and it does show the ads now so no use to use Firefox in there just get rid of the ads.

 

Isn't that something how many ads are there? Those are images to, not pop up adds that can be avoided. That was kinda what I meant - LOL!

 

 

No problem, Weezy...I'm always happy to spout off :clapping:

 

Lee

 

We all learn alot from each other here :D

 

Weezy

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Im just visiting that forum, Weezy with Firefox´s adblocker etc enabled (all that is disabled is my Norton Ad/popup blocker) and it does show the ads now so no use to use Firefox in there just get rid of the ads.

 

Isn't that something how many ads are there? Those are images to, not pop up adds that can be avoided. That was kinda what I meant - LOL!

With a good adblocker they do go away. :clapping:

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Im just visiting that forum, Weezy with Firefox´s adblocker etc enabled (all that is disabled is my Norton Ad/popup blocker) and it does show the ads now so no use to use Firefox in there just get rid of the ads.

 

Not sure how you figured out where it was Thomas, you sneak you! LOL

 

Its such a great site, so imformative and all, too bad its plagued with advertising..

 

Weezy

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Back to the original topic.. this is what I did mean by banners..

 

I erased the name of the site, hope it is ok to show you?

 

 

I just googled some of the text from that pic and found the site. I brought up the exact same page and there was only blank space where those ads are in your picture. Those ads are inserted by a script. I have my browser set to ignore all scripts so I don't see the ads. I do see a lot of blank spaces like that as I surf. I'm sure I am missing a lot of the internet but I'm not losing any sleep over it :clapping:

 

Lee

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Lee. that is a good idea - but for me, it doesn't work.

 

I like to see the horse stuff, just not the adds.

 

I am sure there are horse images, pedigrees, etc - inserted by script - no? Yes?

 

:clapping:

 

LOL

 

Weezy

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Well, how about that!

 

What an eye opener!

 

Thanks guys, I will try that!

 

Weezy

 

You might consider killing active x while you are at it...it is rather unsafe. Unfortunately it is an MS product so every time you encounter a web site using it you may get a pop up warning but I just put up with that rather than risk my computer security.

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I use firefox as well and i couldn't be happier, from what i understand, that the main difference between firefox and IE is compliancy. IE tends to not like compliant pages, or at least websites designed for IE specifically are not compliant.. that's my understanding anyways. and it is of course a very broad generalization.

 

As well i have to agree with Striver. Microsoft themselves recommend not using ActiveX as it is usually the main place hackers and others willing to attack maliciously since it is so unsafe..

 

but that said, i use IE for web development as it has been around longer, and there are websites that are built mainly for IE which i still want to view. and again, it's 85% of the internet population using it :)

 

but i think 25 million users for firefox is pretty good taking into consideration that it is a third party browser, and didn't come with most of the OS's out there ('cept those *nix gurus and Mac users) =)

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I know just about everyone has chimed in with opines on Firefox but I want to mention something that from what I've seen, has been left out. Whoahorse asked some questions about FF in regards to web design.

 

First, there are very important differences in the way FF and IE interpret CSS layouts due to a bug in the way IE interprets the box model. If you want more info on this, Google 'box model hack' and prepare to find thousands of pages.

 

Now, if you design in tables, this doesn't really affect you. But the more you get into CSS, the more important it is to look at your sites in multiple browsers.

 

If you start using CSS-Positioning for your layouts (maybe you already have) then it's recommended that you design, test, and tweak in the more rigid (accurate) browser: Firefox or something non IE. Of course you want to view the site in IE too since 90-95% of the world still uses it, but it's easier IMHO to design for FF and verify in IE than the other way around.

 

Finally, there is an amazing web developer extension for FF (if there's one for IE I've never seen it) that gives easy buttons on a toolbar for viewing CSS, outlining html elements, editing css on the fly, disabling features, and giving you information on cookies... just a ton of information that I don't know how I would ever live without.

 

I especially like it when I find an interesting design and I want to find out how they did it. Note: It's not nice to copy, but researching for the sake of improving skills is different.

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To toss my $.02 worth in, I too use FF for about 95% of my browsing.  There are a couple of sites needed for work that REQUIRE use of IE.  (I won't even go there!  :blush: ) For development, I test in IE and FF, using IE as the predominate one, since that's what is the predominate browser out there.  And yes, there is a noticable difference between the two.  But, like I said, since IE is the main one, that's the one I focus on.

 

Just a quick question...does anyone know how much of a difference there is between Firefox and Netscape?  Is it enough to warrant installing just for test purposes?

 

Recent (8.0 beta) builds of Netscape are FireFox re-packaged. Just like Netscape 6 and 7 were re-packaged builds of the Mozilla Suite. You won't see much of a difference. I also check my designs in Opera. My main site has a small quirk in IE, but frankly I could care less. Most of the visitors to my site use either Mozilla Suite or FireFox.

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