annie Posted June 5, 2004 Posted June 5, 2004 No matter what I do, Google finds me in here. Lastest stunt is to index my profile page. OK, so I'm proud of TCH, but I don't want people following me in here from Google because *I* am talking here. My latest sig line should be Google safe for the time being, but it also shouldn't do much to improve my Google PR rank. I don't care, I just want privacy... If you want to see how visible you are in Google, run this query: site:totalchoicehosting.com yoursite Should be interesting if you're a frequent poster... Quote
TCH-Thomas Posted June 5, 2004 Posted June 5, 2004 (edited) Throws protection shield around Annie I dont see a problem with google indexing what i say here. I may be a lousy webdesigner which may be revealed when google index this. But hey, why care about that. I can obviously not protect me from that to happen, so i hope who ever chases me in to here sees my little monkey in the signature. Why would it be so bad to have google index this? Edited June 5, 2004 by Jikrantz Quote
Head Guru Posted June 5, 2004 Posted June 5, 2004 I think the opposite of your thought Annie. Google PR is hard to come by. I would be smiling all the way to the Google PR Bank! Quote
annie Posted June 5, 2004 Author Posted June 5, 2004 Personally, a home board should be somewhat private. This is obviously anything but that. But it still has become a home board to me, and I want to protect MY privacy from people who might be looking for me by my domain name. For years I've been shy of showing off my real skill level on my site. I have heard rumors I've been labeled a hacker. That's something I'm not comfortable with, because I'm anything BUT a hacker (as in someone who can/will break into a computer). Someone who followed me in here who doesn't understand much about computers might actually think my skill level is higher than it is, because I DO talk about coding and scripts and tracing and whatnot here. I am among people with equal and far superior skills here, and it's an athmosphere where I goof off and learn. That's not a place I want to be followed into by someone who isn't here for the same reason I am - to learn and to have TCH host their site. Quote
annie Posted June 5, 2004 Author Posted June 5, 2004 And I think you're selling yourself short, Bill. Googlebot doesn't index all sites with the voracity it does this forum. I believe there's a direct correlation between how interesting a site is to Google and how much weight it gives to links out from that site. That said, I couldn't care less, because right now I've got all the Google weight I need, except in one keyword phrase. And that one isn't so easy to crack anyway. It would be foolish to try and crack that one using only TCH as a tool. Quote
TCH-Dick Posted June 5, 2004 Posted June 5, 2004 No matter what I do, Google finds me in here. Lastest stunt is to index my profile page. OK, so I'm proud of TCH, but I don't want people following me in here from Google because *I* am talking here. Only way to avoid that is to not link to your site. My latest sig line should be Google safe for the time being You latest sig is a link back to your site and Google will folow it. All I can say is if don't want this forum to link to your site then DON'T link to your site. You are Directly responsible for all links back to your site from here. I just don't understand the the paranoia that some users here have about this subject. So everyone relax, no one is going to come here and then stalk you down. Well Rob might, he is a little weird. Quote
annie Posted June 5, 2004 Author Posted June 5, 2004 Get off Rob's back, he was the first to make me feel welcome here. Google might follow the link, but the current algo seems to consider anything that's invisible on a page as something they shouldn't make searchable in their index. That development was probably due to earlier 'techniques' Google considers spamming, such as invisible text and stuff buried in the code. But what this means, is that I can currently hide anything I like on this forum, as long as it's under an image. I didn't anticipate Google indexing my profile, which was why I left the link on there until now. This policy has been in place for some time. It used to confound me why I couldn't find certain things I was looking for, until it dawned on me exactly why. The issue isn't whether or not Google will follow a link. I don't mind if Googlebot DOES follow the link in my sig. What I object to is what's made searchable in their index. As long as they don't change that bit of the current algo, I'm safe from Google searches even with a link to my site in every post. That is, as long as I don't write out the name of my site... Quote
annie Posted June 6, 2004 Author Posted June 6, 2004 Wowser! There sure are a lot of folks on this board! My graphic is currently loading from my site, and it's gotten over 160 hits already! I think I should upload it to TCH instead... Quote
lubox.com Posted June 6, 2004 Posted June 6, 2004 No matter what I do, Google finds me in here. Lastest stunt is to index my profile page. OK, so I'm proud of TCH, but I don't want people following me in here from Google because *I* am talking here. My latest sig line should be Google safe for the time being, but it also shouldn't do much to improve my Google PR rank. I don't care, I just want privacy... If you want to see how visible you are in Google, run this query: site:totalchoicehosting.com yoursite Should be interesting if you're a frequent poster... I read 3 time sthe entire thread, but I'm still not sure to get the point there... Annie, google followed all the links available and when they are on website like tch, they are likely to be followed very often, then it is more than normal to get you listed in being a member here. Regarding the facts of using a pics to avoid being spidered... hmm not sure that it works. Sure it will works if it's only a pic but as you made a link on it, I believe google will still follow it, but I may be totally wrong... And to conclude as Dick, I do not understand the paranoia of some people... If you want to be completly anonymous you can easily, just don't link your site etc... Change of nick name... I have several ones depending on the kind of site, I'm chatting on (Coume, Lubox.com, HornyBoy81, ..) And if you want to be anynonymous as you are a reseller and you don't your customers to find out, it still easily possible! There are IMHO 70% of the webhostng cmpany nowadays that are reseller, or that have a server in another company, but their customers don'tknow that... you just have to be meticulous... Ludo P.S.: If my answer is off-topic then just skip it, it's late 2.40AM, i have excuses P.S.: I was kidding about the hornyboy81 nickname, but I foudn that funny! sorry Quote
Boojum Posted June 6, 2004 Posted June 6, 2004 Annie, Please don't take this the wrong way, but I think you need to make a decision: Your preeminent concern is either privacy, in which case you are best advised not to link to your site from this forum; or it is publicity and pagerank, in which case you should take pride in the response you are getting. It seems, ultimately, a bit disingenuous to create over 200 links to your site and then complain when people and robots actually follow them. Quote
TCH-Rob Posted June 6, 2004 Posted June 6, 2004 Well Rob might, he is a little weird. HAHAHAHA! I admit to being a bit strange and find humor in off the wall places but stalking is a bit of a stretch for me unless you are the ultimate feast at Red Lobster. Thanks for coming to my defense Annie, my coleagues give me a hard time because they know I will give them one too. No one is safe from a quick snap from me and I expect a bit back. Is an image safe? Only if there is not a tag to link it somewhere. If I can click an image to go somewhere so can an spider. Quote
annie Posted June 6, 2004 Author Posted June 6, 2004 Like I said, I don't mind Googlebot following a link. And I've told many people about TCH, and I likely will put it on my website as well soon. I'm not a reseller, yet. But today what I said still stands, if you ask Google to look for my domain name on TCH, you won't find it unless it's in text. The same way you won't find invisible text (same color text as the background), and invisible code. I used to use the emailriddler, and I thought I'd find each place it was used by searching for it. I was amazed to find there were only 112 hits from the word emailriddler. Google does not find the many places where it can be found in the code, where it's not visible on the page. That code is still on some of my pages. I found something a while ago that I was looking very hard for. I'd searched for the URL, and then searched for the name as an afterthought. I got a new hit for the name, but when I got to the page, I saw that the URL was beneath the name. I haven't found a way to bring up those links hidden beneath other text or images. IF there's a way to do that with Google, I'd like to know. Not because I'd remove my sig, but because it would be a useful tool. And IF there's a way to find HTML or other hidden code in pages, I'd be very happy! Quote
annie Posted June 6, 2004 Author Posted June 6, 2004 I need to modify my stand. I did a search for one of my domain names, like this: link:www.domainname.com And lots of pages for my other domain came up. That link is buried in the code there, under what Google would consider a keyword: Webmaster. Quote
Deverill Posted June 6, 2004 Posted June 6, 2004 That link is buried in the code there, under what Google would consider a keyword: Webmaster. I think I'm missing your point, Annie. Google doesn't care what the words are used in a link - if it's a link it will follow it. Why would the link to "webmaster" disqualify it from being followed by Google any more than a link named "Free beer tomorrow" would? Also, you speak of hidden links that Google doesn't see... can you give an example of one somewhere so I could understand what you mean? I had not heard of this functionality of Google and would like to know as much about it as I can. Thanks. Quote
annie Posted June 6, 2004 Author Posted June 6, 2004 We're talking about two things. 1) You're talking about Googlebot following a link, and why wouldn't it. There's no reason why Googlebot wouldn't follow a link. That's what it does. 2) I'm talking about what Google will allow searchers to get results for. And my working theory is that Google is hiding what isn't in visible text on a page. With exceptions. There are all kinds of syntax you can use on Google. I've seen for a long time that Google doesn't return every result it has for a each search term. There are several types of result, including cached and not cached, and old content and new content. And regular content. So if you search for the words ****, Google asks you what kind of results you're looking for. And it will return different results depending on what you choose. link:www.**** will return results of where that domain name has been linked from somewhere else. But I couldn't see those instances where my domain name was linked using the full text of the link. In other words when I've included the link in my sig file when writing in to discussion lists that have been archived openly on the web, and the link made clickable. BTW, sometimes that link doesn't work (some junk is included that breaks the search). You should try manually entering the search term I specified. I get a totally different set of results when I click on 'contain the term'. That returns this search phrase: "domainname.+com" As for what's hidden in the code. This page (click on smiley) is in Google: I've used the emailriddler on that page, and it IS in Google's cache. But I've been unable to find that page in Google by searching for emailriddler. Google is handling it as if it's not present if it's not visible - at least right now. I've done searches for my domain name via Google, with TCH specified as site. Although the site name was in my profile for a long time, the only results I could bring in Google was my profile, and the one time I'd written it out in words. No results from all the pages where the link was under the www button under each of my posts. Quote
annie Posted June 6, 2004 Author Posted June 6, 2004 I'll illustrate another Google idiosyncracy: Did you know that even if you outlaw specific folders in robots.txt, the pages could still end up in Google? Yep! Only there will be no cache, not text and no description, only the link. Before I moved my site, I used a different message board software. Each post was a separate file, and the posts were in a different folder than the board index file. I'd blocked the folder with the messages in robots.txt, but Google still listed lots of the message files. Why? Because what's in the index is the LINKS to the files from the forum index page. So Google doesn't just return results from pages it has indexed, but also LINKS it has found in other places. And that's also how one of my pages wound up the top result on a keyword I coveted, after I placed a link from my best website, even though I'd goofed on the robots.txt on the website I was linking to, effectively blocking Google from the entire site! Quote
Deverill Posted June 6, 2004 Posted June 6, 2004 (edited) Ok, I think I can help settle some of the confusion. First of all, the LINK: feature of Google is messed up. Some argue that it only returns a page if the PageRank is 4 or more. Others say that it's hit or miss even then. Others say it only shows pages that feed page rank to you. I think I agree with the theory that it's just broke and/or Google's messing with SEO's. Also, the emailriddler text is in a javascript piece of code. Google (nor any SE I know of) will render the Javascript. They basically just skip over it from what I understand. For example, the search ["Contact Saginaw" site:www.yoursite.com] does not return any hits either. I think it's because it's Javascript and not that it is simply hidden. I know one SEO spam technique is to load up keyword phrases into normal HTML comments so they obviously check them. Hope it helps a little. It's really interesting about the link versus robots.txt file though. Thanks for sharing your findings! Edited July 22, 2004 by TCH-Jim Quote
annie Posted June 6, 2004 Author Posted June 6, 2004 I'm not sure your explanation is correct either, but the truth is we're all guessing. The only way to figure it out is to test each assumption. But then Google could change their algo tomorrow, and we'd be messed up again... I did another test. On my main page there's a link to bios1.htm. I did a search for that whole string, and when I ask for pages CONTAINING that page, I get nothing except the page itself. Quote
Deverill Posted June 7, 2004 Posted June 7, 2004 I'm not sure your explanation is correct either, Which specifically? That link: is unpredictable and not trustworthy? It's a fact. That Google doesn't render Javascript when the spider crawls? It's a fact. That Google returns results on white-on-white text? It's a fact. Google would have no reason to return a page based on the name of a file you are linking to. If it's not content then why would a searcher want to look at it and thus why would Google show it to them? My question was with your statement that basically white words on a white background won't get found by Google which is what I thought you meant by And my working theory is that Google is hiding what isn't in visible text on a page. Regarding that you can see it on this site valfiorentina.it which uses #FFFFFF text on a #FFFFFF background and if you use the search term Italien, Tirol, site:valfiorentina.it You will find the page showing that white-on-white is indeed indexed by Google as long as it is where text should be displayed - ie a usable part of the page instead of links and scripts. I guess I just don't get what you think I am guessing on. Quote
annie Posted June 7, 2004 Author Posted June 7, 2004 What I was referring to was that Google only omits javascript. I couldn't find the white text you were talking about on that site. But you know, Jim. Google is a mystery, and my point was that our theories are just theories unless we can prove them, and there's no OTHER explanation for our theories. And since Google keeps changing things around. It's hard to keep on top of things. Right now my theory is that Google won't return results of file names buried as links under graphics, but I could be proven wrong at any time. I extended that theory to say that Google (logically) doesn't include results in the normal search results that are hidden on pages. But that could be wrong too. Quote
Frylock Posted June 9, 2004 Posted June 9, 2004 So to summerize, you're saying it's possible to increase your sites PR by simply posting on message boards where you have the site's link in your sig/profile? Hmm, that seems a little odd. Quote
TCH-Rob Posted June 9, 2004 Posted June 9, 2004 So to summerize, you're saying it's possible to increase your sites PR by simply posting on message boards where you have the site's link in your sig/profile? Hmm, that seems a little odd. My PR should be 20 then. Quote
Deverill Posted June 9, 2004 Posted June 9, 2004 Yes, but 1. Some forums have sigs not spidering. I know of at least one forum like that which is the same program TCH uses. 2. The PR of this page, for example, is ZERO... not much help there. Now, the TCH Family Pages is a different story Quote
Boojum Posted June 10, 2004 Posted June 10, 2004 Now, the TCH Family Pages is a different story Speaking of which ... What's actually going on with the Family pages? I hoped to get into them with my new site version, but when I'd finished it, I found that the pages are apparently not currently being updated. Who, if anyone, is in charge of that feature now, and will it be reactivated soon? Quote
TCH-Rob Posted June 10, 2004 Posted June 10, 2004 (edited) The who is TBA, just have to hang tight to find out. The when is hopefully soon, we are working on it. Edited June 10, 2004 by TCH-Rob Quote
Deverill Posted June 10, 2004 Posted June 10, 2004 If I'm not mistaken they are activated, it's just a little slower than normal to be updated. Quote
TCH-Rob Posted June 10, 2004 Posted June 10, 2004 You aren't, I could have clarified my statement. Quote
guita01 Posted June 11, 2004 Posted June 11, 2004 Google doesn't care if the text is the same color as the background. "hidden" It's a hyperlink and it will follow it. My way around this issue is to use my real name as little as possible. "Larry Wallwart" Quote
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